Arsene Wenger has defended his record as Arsenal boss in recent years despite the well-known fact the club hasn’t won a trophy since swapping Highbury for the Emirates.
Asked ahead of this evening’s crunch clash at Goodison Park to comment on David Moyes’ achievements on Everton’s tight budget, the boss took the opportunity to ram some home truths down the throat of assembled journalists by pointing out that for all the speculation over the last seven years he hasn’t actually had a war chest full of gold bullion lying about for massive transfers and expensive contract extensions.
Indeed, in the face of criticism both in the media and from the terraces, the boss was as frank as he’s ever been about the financial ties that have been in place for the best part of a decade stating that he knew it would be tough to compete at the top but that he opted to stick around in North London and guide the club through troubled waters all the same.
“Of course I admire him [Moyes] but I can show you our transfer balance over the last 16 years and you would be astonished,” said the boss.
“People forget we built a new stadium, that we had to go through limited resources, that we maintained the club at the top and we didn’t have the money available.
“I accepted to stay and to do that. And I went through it. We maintained the club at the top and we are now going toward a period where we will be able to compete again financially with other clubs. It was an exciting period but a difficult one and you needed to be strong.
“We just qualified for 13 consecutive years in the last 16 of the Champions League and, even with all the financial resources we have now, it is not sure we will achieve that in the next 13 years.”
Coming a few days after Arsenal announced a significant increase in sponsorship cash from Emirates, the boss said that he is now looking forward to operating on a more level playing field with big-spending Premier League rivals.
“We are in a position where we can compete with the clubs for the transfer period. If you look at the recent years, we have lost players and not small players.”
Fans will of course be forgiven for waiting to see if this is indeed the case before believing it.
The club (acting as any business would) has been all too happy for stories of financial health and meaty available transfer funds to float in the ether. Building up expectations each summer ahead of season ticket renewals only to lower them again by Christmas is cynical behaviour and has done little for fan relations in the long-term.
That being said the board were hardly going to declare an inability to compete from the moment we moved. The billionaire ownership model was in its infancy, the team was still competitive and any suggestion of lowering expectations at a time when there were 60,000 seats to sell would have been business suicide.
Presumably they did what they did with Wenger’s permission, with each party aware that the burden would fall on the man in charge of affairs on the pitch. That the boss has stuck around for the duration is testament to his loyalty.
He’s no martyr, he’s been handsomely rewarded doing one of the best jobs in football, but it does seem hard to believe many could have done better in the same situation.
Been saying this for years; Wenger has been punching well above his weight in this league for a fair few seasons now. The fact that people throw ‘you haven’t won anything for seven years!’ in his face is testament to his achievement. People expect Arsenal to achieve. No one says the same thing to Sp*rs, despite their bigger spending.
Nobody expects Sp*rs to win anything, so aren’t disappointed when they don’t. People do expect Arsenal to win things. That’s the difference.
That was billybatts point Argonaut, Arsene raised the expectation level!
We’ve taken top 4 for granted, like its our given right!
I remember a few seasons back Charlton fans complaining about Curbishley always finishing mid table in the prem!!
Careful what u wish for
It’s our “given right” because we pay the 4th highest wage bill in the league and charge the most money the league has ever seen to watch those players. He is achieving what he should achieve, nothing more nothing less. If he spent money he would be expected to win, and that is something he would not like. Wenger is lucky to be paid such a high wage in a place where he is allowed to roam free without any pressure if he fails in his basic objectives, and repeats those failures due to the very same reasons every year.… Read more »
Swerve, I actually agree with you a bit. I admire Wenger and I think he has done a fantastic job in many ways. I think he deserves all credit in the world for his achievements in his first decade in charge. I believe Wenger was among the first managers to change the pub-culture in the EPL. Perhaps that gave Arsenal a significant competitive advantage. I wonder if that statement will hold up against some serious scrutiny… The point about French players lined up (perhaps, that was also instrumental to changing said culture) and advanced methods (whatever they may be) might… Read more »
When Dalglish came in, ‘pool spent £120m on (shite) players, QPR bought more than 10 players, goes to show that spending does not bring guaranteed success – Montpellier winning the French league last year another example. What differentiates success from spending is quality buys and the ability of doing so – which Wenger undeniably has. So with him openly admitting being facially constrained and still managing to find gems like Gibbs, Theo, Jack, Ox, Jenks, Eisfeld (think he’ll be massive), etc, just imagine what he can do when he has money. He deserves a few more years in charge because… Read more »
Well we’ve seen what happens when he has money – Lehmann, Lauren, Toure, Ljungberg, Vieira, Gilberto, Pires, Henry (and we know what happened when these players were all in the same team don’t we ladies and gentleman). He also bought good squad players – Wiltord, Edu, Reyes, Clichy, Kanu were all good players for us.
William ‘Billy Batts’ Devino was a made member of the Gambino Family. After spending six years in prison he was killed by Tommy DeSimone and Jimmy Burke
Now go get your fuckin shinebox
to all the pretenders who wants to raise the issue of wenger earning £7m should be spanked and send home riding their bmx. This man earned his salary for managing a great team with class. And all those brats wailing about dead woods, having no Plan B, best players being sold every year, not buying quality players should watch every big teams in europe .They all are suffering from the same problems. Players & their agents have become more greedy then ever and the price of quality players are sky rocketing. Lucas Moura was signed by PSG for ASTRONOMICAL sum,… Read more »
Perhaps it would be easier for the fans to digest if the board came out every season and told us that they do not have the finances to compete!
Yes, I can see the season tickets flying off the shelves if they did that
They’d definitely sell more season tickets if the fans knew the situation of the club.
You definitely have an ass for a brain then.
what will take the piss is if Arsene does leave, the new man will take over and have resources available to him that Arsene hasn’t had since we moved to the new stadium and will show as a blip on his record – unfair to say the least. I honestly hope for his sake he does maximise these new found resources and can finally build the team he desires rather than making do with what he has. If after two more seasons we haven’t improved significantly, only then will it be time for Arsenal to reconsider Wengers position. Also worth… Read more »
And Arsenal have spend over the last two season, yes sold and spent, but spent. There has been a gradual increase in outlay.
Arsenal have spent*, obviously not spend. Gah! I need coffee.
Not true, there has been a significant income in transfers the past two years. Have a look yourself: http://arsenaltransfers.com/ With that said, it’s an admirable accomplishment by Wenger. It really is, with a budget like that, achieving a CL spot every single year is worthy of respect. We have no idea yet though, if this was all for nothing. We have no idea if the board, and Wenger, will spend the required sums in the near future. We have all heard this before. Haven’t we? It does sound reassuring though. Maybe I’m easily fooled, who knows. Here’s to hoping. Despite… Read more »
I think deep down, we all knew Wenger was being held back. He’s still a stubborn sod, but he hadn’t been completely blind to our deficiencies. He was just hamstrung by limited funds.
This ‘stubborn’ trait people talk of Wenger possessing is actually one of his strengths. I he wasn’t stubborn, he would not have stuck around to complete the stadium project he initially set out to do.
Indeed, it’s the way with so many people tbh that their strengths and flaws are the same thing seen from a different angle. Much like the way people complain about Wenger sticking by players that are out of form and don’t mention it when it comes good, like a certain Dtuchman we stuck by whilst there were questions not just about his injury record but whether he could actually do it (remember all the talk of ‘slowing down play’ and ‘not being strong enough to play up front’?), it didn’t quite work out the way we wanted it to there… Read more »
For every Denilson there’s a statue of Herbert Chapman?
It’s also his biggest weakness. David Dein sometimes had to force Wenger to spend due to his stubbornness.
Well said..he should be applauded for that. He does know what he is doing. He is doing what he should given the circumstances and limitations..
Chelsea and city spend good part of £2bn in those 7 years… How can you compete with such money? And Man U have to morgatage their stadium.. Liverpool spent £120 million in one year alone and just before that they were nearing bankruptcy. Spurs might have spend the same money as us but have they got a stadium or champions league football?
Look at Liverpools spending, if only we had spent that much. We could have had many a handsome French blokes.
We’ll see what the future holds now and see if this is all talk .
Arsenes comments are actually quite reassuring. i just hope jts true
Good good thing to hear ! In Arsene we trust !
Fuck you Arsene Wenger. You are abit part of the problem but also a huge part of the solution. I just want us to win anything. It’s getting embarrassing!
About time he stood up for himself! Good to have the ” moneys available, arsene wont spend it ” myth put to bed.
I would wait till after the January transfer window to say that.
Didn’t Arsene just say that funds hasn’t been abundant in recent times? This doesn’t mean that we will buy a whole new side in the coming transfer window. We’re still in a transition period, and to hope for a drastic improvement in january may be a bit premature. I’m confident we’ll come good, but I urge us to be patient.
Oh, and by the way. I can’t help but feel that this black scarf movement has to be some devilish creation of JT. What an utter disgrace. I for one will never be anything but red and white.
It will just change from being a myth to a truism! At least you can refute a myth…..
There is truth in what he says but there is also a sizeable amount of bollocks too.
No one ever said spend 50m on a player and according to who you believe there has always been funds available to get the players we have needed or should of kept. All the excuses doesn’t explain why we haven’t won a single trophy for almost a decade. If the CL qualification is a trophy, what’ happened to all of the open top bus parades to display our suitcase of money from UEFA/Sky?
Bullshit. Every fucking week (rising to every hour during transfer season) you get some nobend on an Arsenal forum demanding that the club pull £500m out of their arsehold and buy the league Chelsea/City style by either purchasing a single glamorous galactico or lavishing luxurious wage increases for our existing players to get them to stick around. You want a good excuse for the trophy draught? How about you use your brain and remember that when Wenger first arrived, Arsenal hadn’t won the league for eight years (those eight years including a 10th and 12th place finishes!!!!). And hadn’t had… Read more »
Another historical revisionist I see…
1991 – 1996 – 5 years – in which there were two managers – even Rioch finished with us in the UEFA Cup thanks to Dennis!
We also won cups, a cup double and a European trophy in between.
We have actually won as many trophies in the 17/8 years before Wenger as we have during the 17/8 years with Wenger. With different managers and far less money to pay super wages for average players as we do now.
Where is the improvement?
Obviously you can’t read: Wenger came in for the 97/98 season – Arsenal last won the league in the 90/91. That’s seven years. Those trophies we won were in 93 – which makes it five years between them and Arsenal’s next honour. So what part of that exactly is “historical revisionism”? If there is any revisionism here it’s from you with this horseshit about how thee was far less money to pay super wages – this is an absurd claim considering that in those years there was only one serious financial/footballing rival for Arsenal and now there are at the… Read more »
The improvement is being in and around the top every season. Being in the tournament that contains some of the best team around every season. Those same 18 years were also filled with us finishing mid table.
Cup Winners Cup 1994
1991 League Title – Lost ONCE
Wenger – 1996
Rioch – UEFA Cup Place – 5th 1995 (you would have us believe we were a mid-table side) – plus he brought Bergkamp in (with a lot of help from Dein)
Liverpool, Blackburn, Leeds, others were all paying higher wages then.
You sure were paying attention throughout this time, or have you come along post-Wenger?
I’ll see your 90/91 League Title – LOST ONCE and raise you 03/04 Premier League Title – LOST NEVER. I’ve been supporting Arsenal since the early days of George Graham. I’d say before but that would start putting my age in the minus numbers, so I’ve been through enough years and read enough to know our history
“The improvement is being in and around the top every season. Being in the tournament that contains some of the best team around every season. Those same 18 years were also filled with us finishing mid table.” So an even line is better than an up and down one? Thats the aim? A tournament that we have a slim chance of winning in a league that has the privilege of four spots courtesy of the victories in that tournament of other teams in the league, lest the places drop to three and we would have missed out a few times?… Read more »
“I’ll see your 90/91 League Title – LOST ONCE and raise you 03/04 Premier League Title – LOST NEVER. I’ve been supporting Arsenal since the early days of George Graham. I’d say before but that would start putting my age in the minus numbers, so I’ve been through enough years and read enough to know our history”
The point was that as remarkable as that was (and by f*ck was it!) – Arsenal had been doing some pretty wonderful things pre-Wenger, too easily forgotten.
“So an even line is better than an up and down one?” So you’d rather we sometimes finished say 2nd and sometimes 17th than always finish 4th (or 3rd as happened last season)? “He would NOT outperform the likes of Mourihno, Fergie or Pep if they all had the same budget and the same amount of time” How do you know he wouldn’t outperform them with the same budget? With a bigger budget, he created the invincibles. Maureen and Ferguson have always had the unlimited fund cheat activated (Ferguson less since the debt mounted up) while Guardiola took over probably… Read more »
Arsenal football club and arsene wenger say what ever is convenient at the moment. It is not a case of money, to lose finals and semis. To draw at Villa. This is tactics by the manager. Getting to the Champions league every year is no big deal to the fans. We want trophies. Increasing our capacity by 22.,000 if it does not bring success on the field was a pointless exercise. It is getting so boring and repetitive the excuses being made when we can do nothing about it. I really hope the pre Swansea march is a success.
Getting to the Champions league every year is no big deal to the fans. See how much of a big deal it is if we don’t get there, and ask fans of other clubs how big a deal it would be to be in the CL every season. Clearly we’ve set high standards since Wenger took over, and perhaps we’re not meeting them now as well as we should, but there’s a real danger of people throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I think Wenger’s admission that his hands have been tied financially does make sense, but with this… Read more »
“if he doesn’t then it’s time to think about somebody who will” Yes. Yes and yes. I think Arsene is a sane bloke i’m optimistic he spends but there’s always that principle with him about not “spending crazy money” and right now all the players that we ought to target have all been overpriced some rightly and some it’s a matter of pulling prices from god knows where. Times have changed, arsene has to agree and when the circumstance presents itself to spend say £25 million on a single proven player I hope he takes it if he doesn’t then… Read more »
Well said sir.
What do you mean by “proven?” Without that your statement is largely meaningless.
@Reese When buying said “proven” player, the purchase price is only a part of the expenditure. For said proven player to come to Arsenal, he would want ManC/Chelsea salary levels. He would want at least £10m a year. Over the course of a 5 year contract, Arsenals commitment to your £25m “proven” player would be £75m. In the first year our commitment would be £35m. I want Arsenal to spend but just like your household budget, your outgoings need to be smaller than your income.
@mallen.
Wenger handed £50 million kitty.
Wenger proceed to buy three top players.
The three top players command a wage of e.g. £7million a year.
Where will there combined £21 million wages come from?. Panic attack!
Relax, the emirates deal —> £30 million, that oughta do it!…plus just enough remaining for Gazidis’ hair dresser….oh wait.
There ya go.
My question is, even with sponsorship deal, how much money do we have to spend? Really?
Can I ask; where does this £50m come from if you’ve already spent the £30m on wages? We have a large transfer fund because we sell our better players for large sums of money. This is to balance the books and to make sure we don’t go into debt. What you’re essentially saying is that you want us to sell players to make £50m to the spend that and have £9m left to balance the books, all while the fans are complaining we have sold better players again and the cycle continues. Or you’re saying we have £9m to spend… Read more »
Getting in CL is a big deal to me. I’d rather that then win the COC or even the FA cup to a degree. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only. The big European nights is something I look forward to every year, Europa cup isn’t big enough.
And it looks like the Europa League is going to be scrapped anyway
So pretty soon position 7 in the league will be classified as a “trophy”.
I for one prefer to be in the champions league than not and given the choice of a mickey mouse cup or champions league qualification, would take the latter. I prefer to see us play against Barcelona than Barnsley (no disrespect to Barnsley intended). Even the FA cup is not as high on my priorities.
Used to live in Barnsley. Taking into account the amount of respect it deserves, it’s very difficult to disrespect it. In the same way that saying ‘poo smells’ isn’t disrespectful to poo.
Also, Wenger is a genius. I’d love to do an ‘Ebenezer Scrooge’ to see just how far up the creek we’d be without him. Easier to look at Liverpool I suppose.
I like what the boss has done, but I just wish he was more tactically astute and less predictable.
“less predictable”
Please tell gerv that. He’s predictable in a BAD way, coz when he gets the ball, we already know he’s going to run himself “far away and beyond” the pitchs length!
This is a little bit BS. If you look at Arsenals wage bill compared to Everton, Tottenham, West Brom, in other words, our rivals, you will find that Arsenal spends a lot more on players. If the stories that Tottenhams wage bill is 52m less than ours (~90m compared to ~140m) are true, then you would have to think that Wenger is not the wizard some make him out to be. How much money is spent on player wages for players that do not contribute to success on the pitch? I think this is a huge problem, it does not… Read more »
Don’t agree with that mate, if you look at Arsenals history and the spuds history, any player that is coming to arsenal will be expecting a higher wage purely because of its stature. Spuds can get away with paying peanuts because they get monkeys (had to put a bale joke in!).
In terms of Miralas, he wanted more guaranteed football which is one of the main reasons we missed out on him.
Let’s say that Arshavin, Djourou, Squillachi, Chamakh, and Young make an average of 50k/week (could be more), that is 13m/year on players who don’t even make the bench. Throw in the permanently injured (Diaby, Rosicky) and the loans (Bendtner, Denilson), and you have a lot of wages on players that do not contribute. Some of this is out of Arsenes hands (injuries) but he has a big say in who we buy and how much we pay them. You can argue that players expect to be paid more at Arsenal, but I doubt players are going to choose Sp*rs over… Read more »
Well to be fair Arshavin and Chamackh came with a reputation, and they were paid accordingly , its the younger ones that have yet to prove themselves given above average salaries compared to the other teams thats causing the wage bill to be ridiculously high.
Logic may not make much sense but that monkey joke surely does..Awesome.
Spurs don’t have reserve or other teams, ‘Arry scrapped them so you’d expect their wage bill to be lower
“If you look at Arsenals wage bill compared to Everton, Tottenham, West Brom, in other words, our rivals”
[stops reading]
Sounds about fair, nothing in our recent performances points otherwise.
First, it’s Mirallas, not Mirales.
Second, just because someone had a few decent matches, doesn’t mean we missed out on him.
Its quite obvious he missed out on us!
Didn’t we spend £43m more in wages than Spurs to finish one point ahead of them last season? Not to mention how much more we spent than Newcastle who weren’t to far behind. Your gonna try and convince me Wenger has no money to spend when they back him enough to spend £15m on a 17 year old that’s never played about League 1?
Jordan, you’re talking about one year where teams have done well. Arsenal have done it consistently and like it or not the Champs league qualification has helped swell the teams pockets. I think if you speak to Liverpool fans or anyone who had had champs league for a while they will tell you how tough it is to get back into it once they’ve dropped out. How many times do you hear top talent say they want a champs league club? Yes we’ve been disappointing compared to the past and yes Arsene can be frustrating at times (who’s manager hasn’t?)… Read more »
Logic bomb:
1 – criticise club for letting go of best players, and being unambitious/not prepared to pay appropriate wages
2 – criticise club for paying too much to players when other clubs like Spuds (who let us not forget were effectively finished as a threat once Van der Vaart and Modric moved on for, er, more money) don’t have high wage bills
3 – KABOOM!!!
Agree with you, but results are everything. You can say the sp*ds aren’t a threat, and while we did spank them, let’s not forget they’re on the same points as us after the same amount of games, and they’ve got a better record against teams higher than them.
Not trying to say they’re better or even on the same level, but you have to acknowledge that, in recent years (and this season) they’ve kept pace with us.
Much of his faults is not related to transfer money.
1. Defensive failures
2. Relying on injury-prone players
3. Some significant cash spent on the Chamakhs and Gervinhos
4. Huge wages to useless players
5. Over-reliance on players like Denilson for whole seasons
etc.
Hopefully you are not Arsenal coach… You may have a chance to coach under 3 yrs old in the Samoa Islands
Reasons 2-5 all point to money. If he had cash, he wouldn’t have had to rely on injury prone players or Denilson as he would get a replacement. The pressure of finding cheap alternatives drove us to buy Gervinho and Chamakh who were in decent form at the time but far from proven, the risk it carried meant we got them cheaper, and unfortunately they haven’t paid off (yet). Money is a much bigger factor now in football it seems!
The point is that most people cite Wengers transfer genius, and Wengers tirade was in response to a comparison with Moyes. Moyes has more limited financial constraints but seems to avoid putting bad players on high wages.
I think Wenger has done a good job at Arsenal, but I don’t believe a word he says and his petulant reponses to media questions are embarassing.
I’m sure if you had been poked with a verbal stick for 8 years by people who don’t have a coaching qualification between them, you’d probably get bored and have a go back.
I completely agree about the wages, but expectations were different 4 years ago. There was still a ‘top 4’ and any player Arsenal wanted would have to pay higher wages than Everton purely because of the club’s status. Things are now different, we are unfortunately viewed as a top 6 club – but it has its advantages in the form of wages as we can lower them for new unproven players we get in, like the Ox for example. Time will tell if things change for the better, I’m willing to give Arsene the chance.
As if Wenger negotiates every contract. Fine, he might be the one that gives a lot of the deals the okay, but come on.
Can’t believe all the negatives thumbs down to Promans coach when he is absolutely right.
We are financially hamstrung, but basic coaching (like the defence) IS down to the manager and we’ve been shocking at the back for 6 years.
I really like Wenger, want him to suceed, but he has made mistakes.
*coach = comment.
No idea how I did that.
He has been paid the best part of £75 million pounds in the last ten years or so I agree with blogger, he is no martyr, and no one at the club is either.
But he could have earned 3 times that at Real or Inter when they came for him. He’s actually the only one showing a bit of loyalty at the club.
Arsene has taken so much of the flak over the last 4 years that the bumper pay he gets is well deserved, in my opinion. The man put his reputation on the line for the long term future of this club, which is why I find the amount of abuse he gets from some quarters of our support is pathetic.
Has he made mistakes? Sure, he isn’t infallible – but would I have preferred another manager at the helm during the last 7 years? Not a chance.
errr, “which is why the amount of abuse he gets from some quarters of our support is pathetic.”
Grammar, innit.
After the new kit deal, the Gazidis declarations, and now Arsene’s, I think we (the fans) would feel something like a betrayal if no new players arrive in January
Why? That deal doesn’t start until next season AND January transfers are hugely inflated rip-offs because players and clubs know that they’re just desperation spends.
Gazidis said we are getting more of it at the beginning in order to finance some immediate results, and quite frankly with the number of pretty high quality strikers that are going to be on the market for relatively cheap in January, I’m going to be goddamn pissed if we don’t nab someone.
Given we have one recognized striker and they are throwing around amounts of 6mil for huntelaar and Juve is supposedly offering sub 12 for Llorente, there isn’t any excuse not to at least dabble.
I get the feeling Ivan means getting at the start of next season rather than when the current deal ends and we start the new deal
Don’t get me wrong, I’m absolutely not opposed to buying in Jan if there is someone definitely worth buying. I would be all over Huntelaar at £6m.
But no-one is buying Huntelaar for £6m even in summer let alone in a month. And frankly we’re not Chelsea, who can afford to spunk £50m on a talisman striker and then be all like “Eh, whaddyagonnado?” when he doesn’t perform as expected.
Proof if any were needed as to Wenger’s brilliance as a manager. As much as some will not want to admit it, we HAVE been punching above our weight as an earlier comment stated. The man is, quite simply, fucking brilliant at his job and whilst he can frustrate in equal measures sometimes, we would be worse off without him through what has been a tumultuous period. With the extra money available in the summer, good times are ahead.
In Arsene We Trust.
Unless he buys a couple more Young, Chamakh, Squillachi, Arshavin, Gervinho -type players.
mediocre players on high wages, brilliant management indeed!
but hey, go team!
Snore
I can understand that a lack of funds were responsible in Arsenal not being able to attract 20m+ players, or were responsible in letting our best players go at times, but it still doesn’t explain a lot. 1) Playing with ‘the handbrake on’ in too many games every season 2) Defence getting weaker year on year 3) Players strolling on the pitch and not being motivated enough for big games (This problem has been solved to an extent thanks to some dedicated professionals joining in the last year) 4) No Plan B, and tactical naivety Wenger has done a great… Read more »
It’s funny how people keep insisting on making a wage comparison to Spurs, Newcastle, West Brom and Everton…but don’t with Chelsea, Manchester City, Manchester United and Liverpool – the teams that have won big domestic and European honours since we moved to the Emirates.
Simple chelski and citeh have sugar daddies, manure increased their ground capacity and are far more astute than us on the commercial front and lets not kid our selves are a bigger club than us (worldwide fan support). We increase our income and fail on the football pitch ,whilst others are competing with us without the increased income.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/9514149/Graphic-Premier-League-transfer-and-wage-spending-from-the-200001-season-to-201112.html Man Utd’s wage bill is 3rd highest in the league, we are 4th so we could see this in 3 different ways. We are where we are right now according to wages 4th in the league -4th position in table come end of season. Or we could look at Man Utd who have finished 2nd, by GD not an enormous margin, so Man Utd are indeed punching above their weight also. We can look at the amount of players that have little or no input in the team and are picking up alot money every week inc comparison with… Read more »
yeah how？
Exactly why, last season we spent ~28m less than United on wages and ~33m more than spurs, what did that extra 33m get us? Not exactly punching above our weight is it?
so to answer Andrews question, the reason we are making this comparison is because these teams are our rivals this season, and we spend much more than them. It puts the idea that Wengers does exceedingly well with a limited budget to the sword and in fact shows that we are spend more (~140m) to get the same results as Spuds (91m), West Brom (40m), and Everton (60m).
I think it’s related to our spending on transfers that is more or less, comparable to them (Spurs, Newcastle, etc). Although that kind of thinking (comparing wages to clubs without important trophy ambition) is not too smart, but our way of doing make them can’t help thinking that we are the Spurs, West Brom, etc who punch the weiht so high that we have the status of the Man Utd, Liverpool and those “baby clubs”.
Maybe they compare like for like. We are not as big as manure city or Chelsea no more, the other clubs you mentioned are the ones we compete with for a cl place.
Wenger chose to stay….and he makes a hell of a lot of money to do it. Regardless of our having to pay for the stadium we still have made it a habit to sell our best players while retaining and over-paying players we should’ve cut loose long ago. No we can’t sell those players because other clubs won’t match their wages and they won’t leave for a pay cut. So we waste money on players who never see the pitch until their contracts are done. Smart business? I don’t think so. There is a strong case to be made for… Read more »
If and I believe him that’s true then he still is a genius, but then in gods name why don’t/didn’t we just swallow our pride and involve the fat russian and I don’t mean Arshavin.
In Arsene We Trust.
Some people are commenting about having a bigger wage cap than Spurs & only beating them by one point.
They still had a better squad than us, we just pay our less than great players a little too well.
Don’t forget our wage bill isn’t just players. It’s everyone at the club. We’re a much bigger organisation than Sp*rs overall, hence we have a much larger wage bill.
If it were possible to break it down players v players, I don’t think the gap would be anywhere near as big.
Just as a matter of interest what are those employee numbers? I know Utd have about 600 employees but I have never heard what Arsenal’s (or Sp*rs) numbers are.
Genuinely don’t know but we would have a lot more admin staff, more commercial staff, more matchday staff and, as a bigger club in general, more people in and around the place every day.
I found some numbers here (better and more fun then doing my actual work):
Arsenal: 384
http://www.tiscali.worksmart.org.uk/company/company.php?id=04250459
Sp*rs:286
http://www.worksmart.org.uk/company/company.php?id=01706358
Not sure how correct those are though seems a huge difference between Man Utd and Arsenal.
Although thinking about it now Tom Fox did say in the AISA meeting in September (that you guys did the great write-up of) that Utd had a commercial staff of about 70 more then Arsenal and Old Trafford is about 16000 seats bigger
So what if it is BS, I think the increased pressure in recent times from fans might actually contribute to real change. That’s what we all want in the end right? Make it happen and I won’t complain. Well, no promises on the football front I’m afraid! I’m hoping that the BSM march on December 1st makes it better for matchday-goers too. Don’t ever forget that as fans you have a right to your opinion and your say on the club too. This could be the beginning of a great time for our club and it’s all because people started… Read more »
I really don’t care as much about trophies, and of course we can’t compete financially with the ‘big boys’. The thing I’m fuming over is that, time and time again, our big stars leave, yet the likes of sp*ds, the scousers, the geordies, all keep their big stars again and again. When they do sell them, they generally sell them for amounts that are actually worth their value or higher. Modric for £35m?! Torres for £50m?! And we sell one of our star performers for £15m, and haven’t bothered with the renewal of the contracts of two of our first… Read more »
Ah I know they do not like arsene wenger very much.
You use Modric and Torres as examples but Arsene usually gets far more than we have paid for our better players. Some examples of our bigger sales: Song – Bought for 1m, sold for 15m: 14m profit van Persie – Bought for 2.7m, sold for 22.5m: 19.8m profit Nasri – Bought for 12.7m, sold for 24m: 11.3m profit Fabregas – Bought for 700k, sold for 35m: 34.3m profit Toure – Bought for 150k, sold for 16m: 15.8m profit Adebayor – Bought for 3.1m, sold for 25m: 21.9m profit All these sales have been used to just balance the books, as… Read more »
I’d agree with you on that, definitely, and I do still love Wenger and love this club. Le Prof deserves massive credit for what he’s done and what I hope he continues to do with us, and nothing can take that away. But just look at that list there – you could add people like Henry, Hleb, Vieira, even Overmars. The fact is that these were our top players, all of them (Even Adebayor, even though he’s a cunt and not so good anymore). We are meant to be profitable, certainly but not like this. Not selling off our top… Read more »
It would be an even more valid question to ask how exactly you know how much any of those players earn per week given that the club, to my knowledge, has never released that information.
Didn’t you know? I’m Kroenke’s chequebook in disguise. In all seriousness I don’t, and fair point. But when several sources report roughly similar figures, you tend to take it as read. I mean, you could say that we didn’t get £24m for van Persie as it wasn’t reported, we just got a packet of chips and a quick hows-ya-father from Giggs in the toilet. What we are aware of is Arsenal’s ridiculous wage scheme, which is intended to be fair but ends up paying higher wages to those who rarely play while not offering enough to our stars, which is… Read more »
Nick is spot on. He chose to stay with us, that’s nice of him. 7 million a year no doubt helped though.
No excuses for January now then. We need to keep theo and sign cover for giroud and Gibbs. Lets see what happens and see if arsene and the club is all talk.
“We need to keep theo”
Yes we do. But Gazidis and co sees walcott as a ready made bag of money, compensation to what he’ll give arsene to spend in January. And when he sees its not enough money back, they’ll sunction a sagna sale!
The fact is Wenger has never had a massive transfer budget at all. As annoying as it sounds, he has actually done a fantastic job in keeping us up there. He takes all the stick, all the shit, and he has to give us Arsenal fans hope. He was and is being used by the board to keep our hopes up, because he was fantastic in those years before the stadium move. I genuinely believe he loves this club and couldn’t leave it in the state it would have been going. Nobody else would have been able to keep us… Read more »
So by halving the players salary’s players like RVP, Henry, Fabregas Nasri wouldn’t have gone. And we would have signed worse players than the likes of Park, Chamakh, Silvestre, Squillaci. Shall I go on? We loan out players we can not sell and last season our captain in a quarter final cup game was player we had on loan did not even belong to us!!!!!! Please what is going on is utter bollocks and far too many people like you are buying the spin.
If Wenger accepted the offer from Real Madrid, he would’ve won a lot of trophies till now, and with far more higher wages.
The Dutch man once said he was the No.1 fan of Arsenal. What a joke!
To me Wenger is one who cares about the club most like the fans, and was/ is totally devoted to the club.
Gooners should be grateful. Hope we will win some trophies soon. In Arsene we trust!
Dave, the problem at the bottom of all this is the communication from the club.we had the board telling us again and again funds are available every time there was an outcry from the fans when our form dropped or when we sold our best players This state of affairs is entirely of thier own making. The fans get Mixed messages from the club and no wonder people are at each others throats. You get some that blame the board others wenger and some who defend both when clearly something isn’t right. Communicate honestly with the fans that are the… Read more »
Don’t believe Wenger’s bullshit. Finishing in the top four isn’t such a big deal for a club of our size – we should do every season. Our wage bill is more than 140 million quid a year. Wenger isn’t shit, but a better manager could do more with the huge resources available at Arsenal. Too much money has been wasted or dross like Park, Bendtner, Arshavin, Denilson and Alminnia. And the Nutty Professor’s refusal to pay the going rate for the very best talent means that we will never be able to challenge for the two biggest prizes in club… Read more »
I look forward to you turning out in the dugout in your suit, to shout instructions and organise the team then FG. You are doing your badges right? I mean, from your comments on this subject, you seem to know it all.
I mean, while it may seem like an inconvenience for someone with your knowledge, UEFA do require a certain standard
Sorry, Doctor Wenger, but everybody knows that the game is up. Week after week of watching us concede pathetic goals tell you everything that you need to know about your coaching. And your substitutions are hopeless, too – like taking off Giroud against West Ham.
My cat could do a better job of running the team than Wenger.
I took Giroud off in a match we won 3-1? What exactly are you complaining about? If you mean Aston Villa (totally different team, region, city), then you change things to earn a point if you feel you aren’t going to get the 3. Prefer to gain a point than exhaust a player further, due to the weather, and lose. If I’m Doctor Wenger, you must be Fat Terry, Fat Frank or Fatebayor (I personally like the last one). In all seriousness, I think your cat is a little shit stirring bastard and I’d like to see him fill my… Read more »
How many liverpool fans thought Liverpool were too big to be brought to it’s knees? They are having to learn the lesson – lets not make the same mistake
I just read this piece about Gazidis taking “key european roles” with UEFA on Arsenal’s website. What do you guys think about that?
It just goes to show that so many fans believe everything that is spouted by PR men, journalists and the board.
The clever ones read in between the lines
“Defensive failures”………i’m really glad that’s one of arsenes failures and not vermaelens constant switch offs to allow a simple rvcunt goal.
“Some significant cash spent on the
Chamakhs and Gervinhos”……perhaps if they get back to form then you’ll not blame arsene. Arsene bought class at the time and that as they say is permanent.
@progmano7
fuck you arsenal board… fuck you players and FUCK YOU fans acting like 12 year old spoilt brats… wenger did what he had to do for arsenal, and he is greater fan of arsenal then any of those punks who think they can manage arsenal better with great management exp. of fifa & FM. Do you fans think arsene dont want to win trophies, manage super stars, hear his name being sung by fans. Why would he want to sign squillaci, santos when he could have bought any goddamn titan of a defender if there was enough funds available to… Read more »
Can’t agree more! It may sound silly but I cried reading your comments. I feel sorry for Wenger, he deserves better.
yup…this was the most brilliant and a heart felt comment I read for a while…only a true gooner who knows his arsenal can pour his emotion like this.
I wouldn’t go as far as Fuck Youing the board, and all our players as some have been real soldiers to the cause. The board is responsible for building the stadium and preventing the move to Wembley among other things. They trust Arsene to do his job without any major interference. Players such as Kos have committed while being courted by the likes of Barc(unts)a. But I am with you 100% about : FUCK THE FANS WHO SING “You Don’t Know What You’re Doing” FUCK THEM HARD and my only wish is for them to fuck off to White Hart… Read more »
I am fuck youing the board because they conjure up images of board giving tons of transfer kitty every transfer window while wenger blatantly refusing to accept & spend. And I am fuck youing the players for the lack of respect shown to arsenal colors & playing far below their normal standards at times.Wenger trusted them dispite people questioning their quality yet they are more then happy to prove the doubters right. Both these parties know wenger will never air the dirty laundry in public. At times I personally feel both these parties dont fully appreciate the man who stands… Read more »
It was Szczesny’s fault, nos Kos’.
Well said, glad I stuck with reading all that! I think the most telling thing is the statement Wenger made about being hamstrung by cash in the past. As far as I can remember he hasn’t contradicted the board and their “Arsene has cash to spend” lines publicly before. I may be optimistic but having spent almost 10 years on the season ticket waiting list, got it after we moved to the Emirates and experienced some amazing football and atmospheres (granted the best atmosphere only lasted the first 8 minutes of the CL Man U match) – the statement is… Read more »
OK, now Wenger says he did not have funds to spend, previously he said that he did. His most recent statement is true? He has never “lied” to the press before, for example that Poldi and Grioud were not bought as replacements for Robin? I think Wenger does a decent job, but I have trouble believing anything he says. His post-match comments after any given loss could be predicted word-for-word by almost any Arsenal fan. I don’t think Arsenal should do the manager merry-go-round and any change has inherent risk, however, those who cannot see Wengers faults are blinded by… Read more »
The CL is a must every year. Look what happened to Liverpool as soon as they missed out one year. Very hard to get back to top 4. People don’t even count them as a big 4 team now.
Shall we look at Liverpool won the Champions League and even last season won 2 trophies!!!
Sorry 2 finals one trophy.
You’re defending litterpools cause?. Jog on now.
The Carling Cup is two trophies?
Hand on heart and ask yourselves if you would not have wanted 2 Wembley finals and a place in Europe booked by February ? We got into the Champions league by the most iffiest of goalkeeping in the Premier league. Now I obviously do not care if we win by the ball rebounding off the refs cock but If I as a fan prefer being mediocre in the Champions league or winning a domestic trophy think I will go for the latter.
I can care less about the Carling cup and FA Cup. I would rather win the League or Champion League.
That would be fine if we were winning the league or champions league but what I am saying if you had not noticed is we are not winning those trophies. And every season we are getting closer and closer to not qualifying for the Champions league.
Ok then, you and your precious liverpool can have the carling/capital one/wonga/viagra cup and we’ll take champions league, better players, better manager, and all round better club thank you very much.
It is not my precious Liverpool. I hate them, like I hate all clubs. Except sp*rs who i really despise !!! But it does not change the facts there is no real difference to the fans if they play Montpellier or Udinese. Do you mean by taking the Champions league qualifying for it?
Let’s look at Liverpool, Boardroom infighting spilling out and affecting Benitez, hence them throwing away a possible prem league trophy and the rest as they say…. Shiny trophies are nice but not at the expense of long term stability (Leeds, Blackburn et al). We haven’t had the resources of City, UTD, Chelski. Fans need to re-adjust their thinking and get real. You need big money to really compete and we ain’t had it. We’ve been punching above our weight and unfortunately when Wenger makes a mistake it has far bigger repercussions because it’s more difficult to put it right without… Read more »
Have to say, I would be interested to Know whether Arsene misses David Deign.
Kind of feel we’ve never really replaced his nouse
The signings overall seemed to be a lot more stable or is that because we were winning a lot more. then?
I think we’ll all know if this is hot air at the end of the season.
If, given the windfall of sponsorship dough, we are Walcottless and the contracts of both Sagna and Wilshere aren’t sorted out, then we will know where the club stands in relation to its ambition, and it won’t be because we are ‘financially hamstrung’.
If this deal with Emirates was in the offing, then why was RVP sold?
And if we don’t keep theo or sagna do we just but thier replacements and forget about the other players that we need for the squad to compete. Due to the way we play with giroud up front, theo is essential. He may not always get his crosses over but when he does its because of his speed in getting past defenders. No other player gives is that. We are about to sell our top scorer again and the best full back in the league and the club expects us to take them seriously about this spending bollox. Could it… Read more »
“he’s been
handsomely rewarded”
He would have earned mow had he fine elsewhere (real,psg,juve etc). So for me he’s the most loyal gooner among us all.
“he’s been
handsomely rewarded”
He would have earned more had he gone elsewhere for glory (real,psg,juve etc). So for me he’s the most loyal gooner among us all.
Now that we know the truth about Arsenal Finances we need to take our anger out on the Board. I have always said for years that Arsenal did not have any money to spend because of the Stadium, but the Board kept on throwing Wenger under the bus by placing stories in the Papers about transfer kitty. The man have done his best with the resources we had to spend, now we know the full story.
“We need to take our anger out on the Board.”
Fuck man, we don’t need to do anything that stupid. It’s neither their fault nor Wenger’s. They got us the stadium and kept us riding high. Let’s just get behind the fucking team.
Sorry phyru.
I guess what i’m trying to say is….oh forget it fuck you man.
P/s I was echoing blogs sentiments.
massive levels of justified frustration at being an arsenal fan over the years. But we don’t run the club and never knew all the pertinent information. It seems as though the tide is now finally turning financially, and we can begin to take stock of the massive financial burden the stadium move was.
I really have faith that we’ll start to see a more competitive Arsenal squad over the next year or two. Its been a long and painful transition for the loyal fanbase, but it feels like our time is here.
I remember Tony Adams last Saturday being asked if he thought a trophy was more important than a top 4 finish, and he replied ”trophies every time”. A trophy is vital in giving a team confidence that it can actually win things and keep players happy. If you think we should be content with a top 4 finish (which is looking unlikely now), then try telling that to the players that have left (our best players btw). Theo and Sagna could both leave as well and if that happens, then for me we are screwed big time, unless a change… Read more »
Can I just thank everyone who has contributed to this discussion so far for keeping it (for the most part) respectful and therefore a lot more interesting.
There are lots of opinions about this, obviously, but it’s much better for everyone if people don’t resort to childishness and stupidy.
Cheers.
Unfortunately FG posted a comment, so I had to poke fun. I’ve brought the whole tone down now…
Fine Arsene. Compare yourself favourably with Everton and everyone will say “Well, he’s done a magnificent job hasn’t he? CL last 16, thirteen years in a row…” No one has any problem with that.
We are better than mid table. But we are not top of the table either – or anywhere near it.
Look, were told that moving to Ashburton Grove would propel us to the level of Manchester United, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich etc. We’re still patting Arsene on the back for staying ahead of the likes of Everton year after year..
“Look, were told that moving to Ashburton Grove would propel us to the level of Manchester United…”
Did you think that meant immediately? Like stadiums just pay for themselves and they have magical properties that enhance the footballing skills of the home side?
Are you a child?
Wenger has consistantly said thet they don’t have the money to spend, at the end of last season he stated they needed to make £15m before he could buy anyone. the fact remains that he has been hamstrung in the transfer market by the fact we’ve moved to a bigger ground etc. He continues to say that this fallow period has affected the ability of the club to spend. A miracle then that we were able to buy Santi for the price we did. Our record transfer fee is Arshavin at £15m, and historically Wenger is much more likely to… Read more »
Wenger forever, but I think that this “more money” situation will maaaaybe result in extending Sagna, Walcott and Wilshere…
This is sad cos I have just realised that I would be happy even with that
although I know we need 3 more players to fight for the top!
I just want to touch on the fact that we keep loosing our big players. Most of them (Fab excluded) have left for much higher wages. So I don’t think we can lay the blame on the board (OK “wengers furrowed brows”, I agree that they often made it sound like we had huge transfer funds. I’ll give you that.) But you cannot stop a player, at the end of his contract, from earning bucket loads more than he is because our club has a certain wage structure that is dictated by our debt. All the rest is bullshit. The… Read more »
What a load of s**t Wenger. Money has nothing to do with the facts: 1. Your teams commit the same defensive mistakes over and over every season 2. Your tactical deficencies and refusal to change systems or formations out of stubborness 3. Contnually playing players out of position (Ramsey on the right, Arshavin on the left, and now Podolski who is totally wasted on the left. ) 4. Relying on injury plagued players who should really be moved on For £7million a year I don’t feel we have the best manager money can buy. Wenger was also quoted as saying… Read more »
Injury plagued players like Van Per$ie?
…because Rosicky and Diaby are really proving their worth right now…
As for RVP, we waited 7 seasons for him to stay injury free. So what if he had one good season and a half? He could easily have been injured again last season, and another gamble which didn’t pay off. The fact that he was our top scorer is irrelevant. Just another Wenger gamble that happened to pay off in the end, well, £24 milliion for the board, nothing for the fans.
Who’s smoking crack? The fact that the top 3 in the prem are funded way over and above what Arsenal can afford has no bearing on Wenger’s decision making? Please get real, the league is driven by money, players leave for money, agents want their cut and push players to hold out for a Bosnan for money. All this affects whether a manager can afford to buy and then pay the wages of the next big thing. Yes, some buys haven’t worked out and that sucks when you know you don’t necessarily have the cash to put it right. Defensively… Read more »
Wasn’t Wenger himself an ‘unproven talent’. He was given a chance to manage in a top league wasn’t he? And my point is money is not the reason we throw away points every other game. It’s lack of organisation, belief, fight, and all the other things that a manager needs to put in to get the best out of his team. Is Wenger getting the best out of his team? Not when you consider he consistantly plays people out of position hoping for the best. Not when he refuses to go back to basics and get this team to defend… Read more »
I think you’ll find Pep will go for more than 7 million. The Chelski Despot has a blank chequebook waiting for him, then there’s City no doubt in line. I don’t think you can take money out of the equation – it’s ultimately why we have a team that looks dreadfully thread bear with a few injuries. The monied teams don’t feel that so badly – why- because they have the money to buy. Yes players have been played out of position but mostly to do a job due to a lack of depth in the squad for the most… Read more »
You obviously know a thing or two…about crack. You speak of Rosicky and Diaby. Two world class soldiers that got injured while on duty for the armory. Oh but let’s cut them loose and act like the Chel$ki who sack a club legend who gets them 2 major trophies. I’m truly sickened by the lack of class shown by some of our “supporters”. I love this club for the way it conducts itself on and off the pitch. Yes I want them to win trophies but not if its done the Chel$ki or Man $ity way. I want them to… Read more »
right, burn the bridge after crossing it. genius!
I’d love to sing the “You don’t know what you’re doing” chant to our fellow fans
have some class.
and stop acting like an ass? Sorry, I thought we were rhyming…
When we mov