Arsene Wenger has urged UEFA to re-think the away goals rule which he views as a relic from a different era.
Of course, in the week when Arsenal once again exited Europe because of away goals, some might say he would say that, but in fairness to the manager it’s not as if he got up on a soapbox, banging his drum about it.
He was asked about it specifically at his pre-Newcastle press conference today and answered the question in a manner consistent with previous discussions about the rule.
While he said he would prefer to see it scrapped, he suggested that away goals, like in the League Cup in England, should only count after extra-time, which is not unreasonable at all.
“It’s a rule that is outdated now and has to be changed. I’ve fought for that for a long time,” he said.
“It should count maybe after extra time because this rule was created in the sixties to encourage teams to attack away from home. Since then football has changed. The weight of the away goal is too big today.
“I think maybe you can count away goals after extra-time like in the League Cup in England.”
To Arseblog News that make some sense, but surely the idea that a goal is worth more because of where it’s scored is just daft.
If it’s supposed to encourage attacking football, scoring away is likely to provoke a team at home in the second-leg to defend more than anything else.
None of which is to make excuses for Arsenal’s European exit – in fact, not one single person has suggested that it’s the away goals rule that was the reason. It was a terrible first-leg which left us too much to do in the second, but ultimately both teams scored the same amount of goals and Arsenal kept a clean sheet away from home.
To us penalties seems the most fair way to decide a game when both teams are level on goals scored, not the location of those goals. Don’t mind people who say penalties are a lottery, they’re not: they’re a skill as well as a test of nerve.
Anyway, it’s an interesting discussion, so have at it in the comments folks.
As always, a boss that is intelligent enough to bring up stuff like this.
Good idea, why not?
Away goals rule and extra-time rule are crap. PKs are good but the Best way to get result should be Golden Goal.
What if nobody scores?!
I pretty much never comment here but always read majority of discussion, but have to react to this. I am glad that Golden and Silver Goal for that manner are gone. And I am open to admit that big reason for that is that as Czech, our national team suffered to both of those rules, just a year or so before it was dismissed (Euro 96 finals and Euro 2004 semis). Extra time and penalties is actually good format in my opinion, maybe only one half of extra time could be played and then PKs would decide. As for away… Read more »
Golden goal is even more random than penalties… one team get first opportunity to score and win the match!
The first team to inflict a sudden death with a golden goal has shown the ability to get possession of the ball and put in a good shot and perhaps after many dribbles and a good assist. All those are football attributes, nothing random.
But it still favours the team that gets the tip off (decided 90 minutes earlier) and thus possession of the football first.
It also is too abrupt an ending and leaves too much open gestalt for the avid fan.
Football had finite parameters and this is too violent and random a finale to those.
People complained at the golden goal rule, but there is nothing random about it. I seriously doubt the coin-flip for kick-off coincides with winning/losing on a golden goal in overtime. Contrast with the NFL, where fielding the kick-off is a predictor of which team will kick the winning field-goal.
Then it runs on forever…. wahahaha. *rubshandslikeadubaibillionaire*
lol yeah . then Golden goal for 30 mins max. If no one scores then pens.
What about a boss who thinks there is a mass conspiracy against his successful team?
I’m so torn, cos if it wasn’t for the away goal, I wudnt have been so overjoyed at the end of the PSG/Chelsea game. Lmao
1. Goals aggregate (regardless of where they’re scored)
2. If equal, extra-time
3. Penalties
Not a trick, is it?
As a football fan, UCL is designed to favour the bigger teams imo. If UEFA wants to promote attacking football, the away rule should be scrapped as it’d give both the teams the security of not being distraught after conceding at home and which could potentially hamper their chances of progressing in the competition.
I struggle to see how that benefits the bigger teams, because they’re better they are, theoretcally, more likely to score an away goal? Not convinced.
Most of the top teams clearly finish as the group winners and then they get to play the first leg as the away team which only puts the smaller teams at a disadvantage. If they lose at home, they already have the burden of having conceded away goal(s) on their minds in the second leg. The psychological disadvantage for the team conceding goal(s) at home in the first leg is huge.
Yep, that (i) goals aggregate regardless of home or away, (ii) extra time then (iii) penalties order makes lots of sense.
This might even help UEFA’s seeding system where the first placed team plays the first leg away and the second leg at home, as the team would have the home support during those crucial 30mins/penalties.
I always found that it made no sense for the first-seed to face additional pressure when it went to extra time a goal during extra time is almost a golden goal for the away team (i.e. the second-seed).
I didn’t know about away goals for league cup, how does that work exactly?
Scored draw after extra time away team wins?
Does it only count if it was 0-0 after 90 then say 1-1 after 120?
Or say 1-1 after 90 then still 1-1 after 120 away win?
*holds head in headache stance
If its a draw at full time it goes to extra time. If its a draw after extra time, team with most away goals wins
If Chelsea are losing on away goals then the current rules should continue to apply.
If Arsenal are losing on away goals then bring on 30 minutes of extra time!
Chelsea lost to a 10-man team. Conceded 2 goals playing against a 10-man team. That’s the reason they’re getting so much stick for going out. Not because of the away goals.
Also, no one is asking for preferential treatment. In fact, Wenger’s after equal treatment, nothing else. The away goal(s) rule enforces preferential treatment.
Er, you failed to mention that the deciding goal went in courtesy of comedy “defending” by a well-known cunt.
That’s also stick-worthy.
And really bloody funny.
The only problem I have with away goals is when they happen at the Emirates.
this kind of rule actually aids Mourinho’s entire anti football philosophy – he keeps it tight at home to avoid a conceeded goal and then attacks more away from home so that he can get a valuable-er goal/
Occassionally his racist center back tackles his non racist center back and allows the opponents to score and we all laugh.
Scrap the away rules altogether – the league cup is slightly better but it still gives an advantage to the team that gets drawn at home in the second leg.
Chelsea lost thanks to the away goal rule as well so their tactical approach didn’t bare any fruit. We know the rule is like this yet I heard no complaints before the knockout stages perhaps because the topic wasn’t relevant at the point but in any case it makes him look silly to hit out against the away goal rule after a loss when he has been in this competition for 18 years and should know the rules inside out by now. The best manager on the day got his team through and that’s the way it is. After a… Read more »
Surely it’s a particularly relevant discussion to have when it happens to you?
Nobody is blaming the rule for our exit, quite clearly the manager and players have said it was our first leg performance, but he’s asked a question in the week when away goals were an issue and he answered the question.
Amazing that you refuse to see the context.
The context is/was seen…as noted – an extended period of years in the CL and now it is an issue. It is not perfect, but everyone knows precisely what they have to do.
In terms of context, I find it galling there seems to have been a general admittance the manager and squad underestimated Monaco.
If we had progressed I doubt the topic would be up for debate.
To be fair he has been calling for an end to away goal rule for a number of years.
Extra time them penalties for me.
Well said blog. Though away goals suck, but it still make a little sense the way we went out because they scored 3 goals on our ground. What I don’t understand is the case of chelsick. They went to PSG, played 90mins, 1-1, came back to their ground played 1-1 in 90mins. then 1-1 in extra 30mins and out on the stupid away goal. how fair is it that there was no 30min extra time in PSG? For me, there should be no stupid away goal rule once the two teams are able to match the exert same scoreline in… Read more »
Galling? Everyone in the world expected Arsenal to beat monaco at home and struggle to beat them away. we all thought it would be a 1 goal margin. Monaco are a tight team that don’t score a lot and concede less. We then played a game at home which, although not our best performance, still should have yielded us at least a 1 if not 2 goal margin, but through luck our “in form” striker missed his numerous chances and panic started to set in, we conceded a 3rd goal while trying to score a second goal. Now i am… Read more »
I predict that we will shortly be renamed to Aaaaarsenal.
I think games that finish level on goals after two legs (or even one) should be decided alphabetically.
Therefore if a match ends in a draw between say Bradford and Chelsea – Bradford should get the win.
On a separate note i think Aldershot should be renamed Baldershot Town.
Then im sure the likes of chelski will be renamed Abramovich FC.
Aarsenal Football Club would like to welcome Abramovich FC to the emirates.
I have always felt that the away goals rule means that the home team in the first game (except Arsenal) usually play too tight looking for a 0-0 result knowing that they only need to pinch 1 goal in the 2nd game. A goal is a goal! Shouldn’t Arsenal get an extra point for shutting out the home team in the 2nd game? I don’t even like benefitting from this silly rule. This game and the Chelsea/PSG game deserved to continue. It’s also easier to score in the 2nd leg when the game opens up finally. This benefits the away… Read more »
Just a suggestion…maybe you should change your nickname to David C Man.
Yeah, away goals means playing for 0-0 at home in the first leg is a thing now.
I’d like to see the higher seeded team play at home first. And I’d argue that it’s not really an advantage to come home for the second leg; if the tie goes into extra time you basically have a golden goal opportunity.
We have had the Golden Goal rule, see http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/organisation/news/newsid=90982/index.html for views on its demise.
Heresy alert…How about no ties in cup games? Play til there is a winner (extra time, penalties) in both legs. Done.
Could work in our favour tomorrow.
I love penalty shoot outs – i dont dread them at all – Some of my happiest football memories happened after it went to PKs –
2014 – Arsenal Wigan
2005 – Arsenal Manure
1990 – Ireland Romania
It’s a good point. And because it’s a good point that few commentators have bothered to even think about they slam Wenger for thinking about it. What’s more they slam him for the timing of his comments despite the reason for its timing and context.
Classic stupid world.
I don’t like the away goals rule either, both teams scored and conceeded the same amount of goals so extra time and penalties!!! Perhaps it should just be a one off game so that we see a more entertaining cup, like the FA cup? Imagine if the Bradford v chavski game had been over two legs? What are the chances the dross would have turned it around – yawn!!! Just think, if it were one game us the champions league knockout games we would have gone through against Barcelona in that epic 2-1 victory, but would have gone out this… Read more »
This is the third year in a row that the team has stupidly chased goals and conceded them in the home leg, costing us the tie. I love Arsene, but this is one of his irritating “I’m not saying it’s the reason we lost, just saying…” things, like we often hear with Man City’s spending and referee errors. And it’s not like those two things are often fair to us, but after a while it’s tiresome to hear. I can see the logic behind playing extra time before going to away goals, but I can’t really buy that penalties would… Read more »
The most obvious flaw is that the away team get an extra 30 minutes to score an away goal, as PSG did. I hear people suggest that this is offset against the home team gaining an advantage by being at home, but this was earned by topping their group so I believe thats ok (someone has to play home/away second). Although the group winners also get a so called advantage by playing a team that finished second and therefore supposedly weaker. I would like to see a draw that allows anyone to tie against anyone else, even teams from the… Read more »
If scoring an away goal counts as more than just a goal, then it means that they think at home is an advantage and away from home a disadvantage. My question is: How come not scoring a goal at home doesn’t cancel that out. Since, failing to score at home should have the same weight as scoring away. This would make the whole away goal rule redundant as it should be. Makes no sense.
To be honest if we had scored a third goal on Tuesday… we wouldn’t be having this discussion. It’s not like away goals has been our biggest problem in the knockout rounds of the Champions League.
Yes, but we didn’t score an extra goal which is exactly why this is a topic for discussion.
But if we did then we wouldn’t – have you even considered that?
I just did
I think there is an overall misconception by the public that when Wenger sits down at a press conference, he immediately gets on his soap box and the conference is all about what he wants to talk about. No. Quite simply he answers the questions put to him. Ok. At some point he may get the opportunity to get on his soap box about an issue, but it still isn’t a case of him setting the press conference agenda. You’d think to hear some people criticise what the timing or content of what he (or other managers) say, that he… Read more »
Yeah, it’s not like he turned up last minute on Goals on Sunday to discuss all the “injustice” his team has suffered.
I think away goals are mesut ozil’s fault.
I certainly agree away goals rule is rubbish I but so is golden goal.I think the best way to solve this problem would be to (win at home and away)and you automatic quality: (if you win one and draw one the losing team would get knocked out.)
If you win one and then loose one,game should go to extra time with a (0-0) scoreline who ever scores more go through . And if it tied after 30mins PK.
That is how I’d amend the rules.
Tell me what are your thoughts.
If its a draw after 90 mins, the team with the highest XpG should go through.
#stats
Now that would encourage attacking.
XpG is that kisses per Giroud?
Haha.
Expected Goals. (The number of goals you would have been expected to score with the shots that you have taken).
Cue Durham/Morgan abuse. “Wenger blames away goals rule for Arsenal exit. Secj him now”
“Sack”
i’d rather have him Secjed
I don’t really see how moving it to after extra time is any better.. if anything it’s more unbalanced. Either keep it as-is or remove it altogether.
I think it will be scrapped eventually – we’ll look back and it won’t make any sense as to why it ever existed. A bit like John Terry.
What do we think of going to extra time if teams are drawing and if there is still stalemate then it’s on the team who has scored more goals and if they are the same then penalties.
I think that if there’s a team that has scored more goals, then it’s not a stalemate. But I could be wrong.
I’m a bell end!
What about extra time in which a player from each side is removed every 5 minutes?
I’d like to see extra substitutions allowed if it goes to extra time – say, you get to use two more substitutes. I’d also like to see away goals used only at the end of extra time.
fuck dat, how bout after a fulltime stalemate you get one extra sub, but its the managers who come on! Arsene would be killing games in no time. He just would….
We all know what will come of this. UEFA will take note and then action, and then in the first season the new rules are introduced Arsenal will lose the 2nd round CL tie which previously they would have won on away goals.
This will happen for 4 consecutive seasons.
There was a real lottery draw in the African Nation Cup to decide the team that would progress from group stage between Mali and Guinea. I couldn’t believe this sort of things existed. Hope UEFA and FIFA do not have same when goal differences, goal scored are equal and match between the two teams was a draw.
I believe if everything is equal between two teams at the end of a group stage in a UEFA competition, then it comes down to the team’s UEFA club coefficient rather than drawing of lots. Obviously in a two-legged tie that ends with a penalty shoot-out, it’s impossible to have to draw lots.
We lost because we didn’t have the collective awareness of two-leg strategy at a crucial moment at the first leg. When we pulled it back to 2-1, we should have shut up shop instantly and taken that. Why? Because an equaliser at that stage would have been a relatively minor boost to the 180-minute situation, compared with the disaster of conceding to go 3-1 down. Even if we had scored at that moment, and finished 2-2 we would still have needed to win in Monaco (unless the away leg finished as a more improbable higher-scoring draw) and such a scoreline… Read more »
Look, as much as we ballsed up the 1st leg, they were so lucky.
We could approach that match in the exact same way again and we would probably score 2 or 3 goals and keep a clean sheet.
They were very lucky that our ‘big chances’ didn’t go in and that the few shots they had happened to go in.
If it was 3-0 we would have been praising Arsenal for getting it done with early one, for having an aggresive attitude to the game and ‘playing with purpose’.
Fucking THIS !
That’s one way to do it. Lady Luck decides. Sucks for the loser though.
I agree with Wenger, but only those away goals scored during the 2 x 90 minutes games should count.
so take Arsenal v Monaco for example if after extra time the game finished 4-4 on agg, Monaco would still go progress.
So we get knocked out on the away goal rule and Wenger calls for a change.
If we’d have gone through on the same rule, would he be bitching about it ?
The answer is obvious. Two words : First is ‘grapes’ and second is ‘sour’.
The actual idea he puts forward isn’t so wide of the mark but the manner of it certainly is. It’s a pity he couldn’t teach the players how to defend rather than whine about rule changes after the event.
Yes he would because he has been saying this for about 15 years.
‘The manner’ of it is wide of the mark? What are you even on about. How should he answer a question about away goals. He should probably say “I’m not answering that question because all the ‘tards on the internet will take it out of context’.
Also, what does grapes sour mean?
I have no problem with the current system We are papering over our own cracks fussing about this rule. Away goal ruling was to encourage visiting teams to attack and not just defend in view of the home tie. Works for me. There are two legs so if you score at their place, you get rewarded on that end. Main thing is there are two legs involved and we should not have had our eyes of the ball in the home leg thinking it was a given. Also prefer extra time to sort it out and if not then go… Read more »
if the rule is to be scrapped it should not also count in the extra time.
Completely agree with Wenger. Although we played badly in the first leg I think it’s sad that despite our fantastic performance at Monaco and a 3 3 aggregate score, we are knocked out.
Way back when I was a kid, I lost a game on a coin flip (haven’t called “heads” in the 30+ years since). That rule was about as good as the away goals rule. Is there any data that supports away teams scoring more simply because this rule was introduced? Just look at Chelsea, when faced with a tough opposition, when have they played an attacking game away from home? They sit back and defend and try to hit on the counter (which also worked well for Monaco). I say 30 minutes extra time if total goals are even, then… Read more »
The away goal encourages home bus-parking. If it was meant to solve visiting teams doing a Mou, well that’s football and to me it’s far worse as the viewer if the home team does it.
The extra sub in extra time favors the larger team with more depth of quality players.
Apply Occam’s Razor. Do neither. Do extra time, then PK’s, and be done with it. If teams don’t want to put their squads through extra time mid week then they’ll just have to go win the matches outright.
As an Arsenal fan, I most certainly would want the rule scrapped for obvious reason. Same reason that made the press pointedly ask Wenger the question in the first place. But objectively, I would prefer Arsenal to be at the same level as the Bayern and Barca and Real of this same world where such archaic rule don’t matter and are oblivious of its existence in their CL history! That my opinion.