Tuesday, May 24, 2022

Report: Newcastle closing in on Willock deal

According to The Athletic, Newcastle United are on the verge of signing Joe Willock in a deal that could net Arsenal more than £20 million.

The Magpies made the England under-21 international their number one target after he impressed on loan in the second half of the season and they’ve finally come up with an offer deemed too good to turn down.

Willock was absent from Arsenal’s squad for today’s 1-0 defeat to Sp*rs at White Hart Lane and Mikel Arteta subsequently set tongues wagging when he said he wasn’t yet able to shed light on why that was the case. 

During a summer when we’ve struggled to offload players (and already spent more than £70 million) it’s a deal that Arsenal fans will begrudgingly agree makes sense. Having had a taste of regular football at St James Park, Willock was never going to settle for long spells on the bench at the Emirates this season.

While it’s always sad to see an academy graduate leave for pastures new, it’s decent money that hopefully we can reinvest.

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Daan

You just know we are going to spend the money on Ramsdale haha

Tommmy

Downvoted purely because I hope you’re wrong. But you’re probably right.

ChickPEA

To make up for Emi’s sale last year… Hope we won’t come to regret this one as much!

IamaGoober

Appreciate that Joe is basically the victim of us not being able to get any decent money for guys like Xhaka, Elneny etc.. but I think selling him and keeping those two, especially giving Granit an extension is absolutely shocking business for me. In my opinion, Joe should only be going if we are clearing out everyone in that department. We shouldn’t be keeping some of the senior pros that have consistently been really poor for a long period of time that are never going to get better, over a young driven hardworking academy prospect who would probably deliver a… Read more »

ClockEndRider

Unfortunately this is reality kicking in. You can’t force other clubs to buy the players you no longer want.

thw14

You can cut your losses and take what you get. Buying Xhaka was a bad decision, playing Xhaka was a worse decision, continuing to pay him is just sunk cost fallacy.

Sachin

Really? Chelsea do it every year.

Qwaliteee

Exactly.

IamaGoober

Force? We had a £12M deal on the table for Xhaka and we opted not to take it. I’ve seen some laughable statements from Arsenal fans saying it was too cheap, and it’s like.. what player have you been watching the last 5 years at Arsenal? He’s been so poor and hugely underwhelming for pretty much his entire stint at the club. He was also a guy we purchased for £30M so what? People think he’s worth more than £12M? It’s laughable — I’d say Roma gave us market value for him. There’s no way we were ever going to… Read more »

Lettra

12m euros IS peanuts for Xhaka .. you would have to spend 3x that to find an equal replacement .You may not like him but everyone at the club does in players and management . He is the player who starts most games for us . Availability is a huge factor because again regardless what YOU think about Xhaka he does more good things than bad things and had his best season for us. We cant be selling starters for peanuts , Joe Willock is not a starter for us and we have struggled to fit him into our team… Read more »

Daveo

I don’t care if its peanuts. Not taking it is going to cost us more than 6m quid and we continue to shape our whole midfield around a deeply flawed player who the manager is obsessed with. This decision represents the opposite of change and change is what we need. If we hand him a new contract we are a complete comedy of a team – hay can you do bit laugh. The alternative is to depressing. This season looks very concerning… Be excited though.

BillyKrystal

So true, at what point do we have to cut our losses? Our midfield needed a total rethink. Instead of sticking to a plan that actually would’ve given us a new look midfield, we’ve taken the easy route because why, we would lose out on a few million? Now we’re stuck with an average player who will likely play every game giving us the same mediocrity he has for years. It makes no sense, he’s not goint to turn into Cesc all of a sudden. Just getting his wages off the books and accepting a symbolic 5 million would’ve been… Read more »

thw14

You could replace Xhaka with Miguel Azeez. That’s partly belief in Azeez, but it’s also how little I think of the “good things” Xhaka does.

His best season has come when he’s been asked to stay off-ball in all situations except those which call for turning very slowly and arcing a pass to a wide player. Looks nice for the cameras, does not create space or stretch defenses in any observable sense.

thw14

I’m happy for Willock, he’ll be used at Newcastle. For Arsenal, it’s one of those calls that could go either way, you just have to hope it doesn’t hurt in the long term. I was mad about the Ox sale, that hasn’t hurt us footballistically (I’m still sad about it though).

As for why we’re getting 25 instead of 35 or whatever for Willock, look no further than the coach. If Steve Bruce can get more offensive production out of a Hale End graduate than an Arsenal manager, we will keep selling at a discount.

IamaGoober

Sadly Lettra, I don’t think it is. It feels more like market value to me. Lets look at a few things here: We can all largely agree that Xhaka’s last 6 months at Arsenal were probably his best since he’s been at club.. and that’s a season where we finished 9th, and where he still made plenty of mistakes that directly resulted in us conceding a goal. And I think since he has been at Arsenal, no midfielder in the Premier League has made as many mistakes that have directly contributed to his team conceding a goal than him, which… Read more »

Daveo

Funny thing is last time Xhaka nearly left it was Newcastle and Herta Berlin interested. Now only Roma with a “derisory” offer. Maybe teams just get what our managers can’t seem to understand. The guy is clearly a top notch dude off the pitch, great trainer and hard worker, but, sorry, that is simply not enough. His flaws are very hard to cover and cost the team in other areas and he’s best suited to a slow tempo game within which controlling possession isn’t the priority. So basically a mid-table team that sits deep and plays on the counter. We’re… Read more »

John C

I agree we should just take the money on offer for Xhaka and move on, but i also think we need to sell Willock. I don’t agree with the giving minutes to untested or probably more likely not good enough youngsters though as an alternative. Our return to the top end of the table is not going to be achieved that way, in fact the opposite is more likely. We have to return to being a club that purchases players based on quality not on price. We’ve seen over the years that over playing youngsters not at the required level… Read more »

IamaGoober

I think selling Willock is fine providing we are trying to bring in revenue for a revamp of that entire department. But £20 odd million for him is such a shit deal when we’ve literally already spent that on Xhaka’s contract extension in wages. It doesn’t make any sense at all. If you’re getting £20M for Willock, £12-15M for Xhaka and about the same for Elneny, then I’d say that’s okay given the market conditions and the type and age profile of the players involved. That would give us £40 odd million to try and get a decent centre mid… Read more »

Riku

Yes but mustafi and xhaka , kolasenacwere thought top end when bought

Hurensohn

Willock should be sold for me, yes he’s going to be a good PL player but he doesn’t fit or perform in our team. However, £20m is far too low. I’d have been happy with £35m but this is Emi Martinez all over again.

We can’t sell players for shit.

A Different George

If no one offers anything like £35m (and they won’t) then we keep Joe? We can’t sell players for more than people are willing to pay. Not “we shouldn’t.” We can’t.

Samgunz

It’s literally the dumbest sale, literally throwing 10-15 goals a season, which we haven’t had from midfield since nearly ever, dumb dumb dumb.

Samgunz

If Mikel doesn’t last beyond this season, im sure whoever takes over will be pissed not to have Willock as an option, Bruce is gonna build the team around him, he’s arsenal through and through, thiz isn’t like Ox (injury prone) or Iwobi, Willock is gonna be a huge star, idiots.

chepetin

I agree. I like the concept of this deal, but for me £20m is too low. If the fee ends up being in the £25m-£30m range then I am all in. Here’s my view if I can think aloud for a minute. Would appreciate other’s opinions on this. When I think about the players we have signed up for the next 3-4 years, I’m fairly happy with what I see as the core of a starting eleven. Yes we have some overpaid players who are underperforming but let’s put them to the side for a moment. We have Tierney, Gabriel,… Read more »

Mathew

So what you’re saying is that we are just missing 2 or 3 players?

Daveo

He fits any team. He just doesn’t fit the manager. And the manager is out of his depth along with pretty much everyone else in management and ownership at arsenal.

kasgood

Hope we have a buy back clause, for when Arteta is sacked and a decent manager comes in. A goal scoring midfield player, now who needs one of those!

Fabulous

Here we go again. He doesn’t “fit our team.” Wake up mate that system Arteta is deploying is getting us nowhere. I’m willing to bet by Christmas we’ll be talking about this again.

And because we want to shoehorn Arteta’s obsession with his rigid tactics, we’re letting go of one of our more promising talents. You all keep saying we have Miguel Azeez. Completely different profile. Joe has better engine, makes great runs. Closest thing we’ve had to Ramsey and minus the injuries.

Riku

Agree, senior pros should go , this lad from hale end , broke Alan shearers goal scoring record at n.u.f.c. from midfield. I say again Alan shearers record! Joe be the next lampard , as a goals scoring midfielder, stupid to sell in my opinion. Emery who has shown he knows a few things brought Joe on for ozil on europa final v Chelsea and played him 40 games and had future plans for him. Hope they put a sell on percentage clause in the deal

Daveo

It is so ridiculous. Losing Willock is another complete bollocksing. Saliba – bollocksed. White, paid 20M too much. Buendia at 33M quid, an absolute steal on a creative player (Villa already discussed how they’re moving him to #10 post Grealish) who we had interest in – bollocksing because we’re dreaming of Marty O, who is good, but not some special talent worth swooning after all summer when it is plain as day he’s not coming. Xhaka – bollocksing isn’t strong enough and he’ll probably block Lokonga all season when Partey is back. This club is a farce.

Fabulous

Absolutely well said. And to think some of our fans think this is good business because Joe doesn’t “fit our system”. What f**king system? The slow ponderous build up that got us 8th? And probably one of the worst xG in the league?

Joe has great engine, make great runs in the box, can score goals and does a great amount of tracking back. Which is something none of our current midfielders can do. And to think we’re only making £20M for him? Young English talent at that. Absolute f**king joke.

IamaGoober

Yeah I have seen loads of stuff like that..

Its like what, so Mikel the guy who is being hailed as the next coming of Pep, Wenger, Cruyff and Bielsa rolled into one.. can’t figure out what to do with Willock… but Steve Bruce can get him breaking a Premier League record for the most goals scored in consecutive matches for a player of his age.

Like give me a break…

Vic Lin

Emi Martinez is worth double of what we sold by now. It’s sad to see whenever our homegrown players show some glimpse of talent and we let go for cheap.

Mayor McCheese

The reason he’s worth double is because he was sold to a club where he played regularly. I don’t think there’s much between Leno and Martinez in terms of shot-stopping, but the former has the edge with the ball at his feet and so the club made the decision that best suits how Arteta wants to play. I really wish we’d stop moaning about Martinez.

Jay

In what planet does Leno have the edge with the ball at his feet??? The main thing ppl say about Martinez is his distribution and calm on the ball!

Der32

Martinez is miles better with the ball and his distribution. Much calmer presence that has an effect on the defence too.

Awesomesauce25

Exactly. Emi was clearly better with the ball at his feet and distribution both short and long in his short time during Leno’s injury. But Leno was far more experienced and thus it would have taken some serious balls to sell Leno and make Emi the number 1. Which was the only way keeping Emi was possible. And frankly, I think we heard that nobody was putting money on Leno as they were Emi, so this the decision made itself I guess. Although I had been hoping for a long time Emi would step up and become our long term… Read more »

Fezec

But Leno was far more experienced and thus it would have taken some serious balls to sell Leno and make Emi the number 1

I’m not sure that’s true. I think it’s more there was a market for Martinez. He was cheaper being a number 2 and also willing to play for a lesser club.

We could never have sold Leno as easily.

ASH

We could never have sold Leno as easily.

— You are saying the same thing in a different.
Leno was our no 1 keeper, and we would have wanted 30mn+ for selling him. But no one was willing to pay that much for Leno, so we sold Martinez on the “cheap”, as Arteta did not trust Emi enough to become future no 1 for Arsenal.

Fezec

That isn’t at all what I said but we can agree to disagree.

Daveo

And now Emi is worth probably close to €35M (Transfermarkt) and Leno maybe €22M (transfermarkt). Well done Arsenal. Well fuking done.

Bleeding gums murphy

I am with you Jay, it was the first time in years I felt comfortable and confident when Martinez had that run of games. Leno is no difference from almunia 🤣

Qwaliteee

I really wish you’d stop defending this club’s hierarchy’s idiotic transfer dealings.

Mayor McCheese

Revisionist history is alive and well. Who is better with the ball at his feet? Leno. Does that mean Martinez is bad at it? No!

Bleeding gums murphy

Wow, was Theo better with ball at his feet than Henry as well 😂🤣. If ten people tell you, you are a horse you better get yourself a saddle.

Der32

Just rewatch all our games with Emi once Leno got injured. It’s not revisionist if it’s true.

Mayor McCheese

But no, keep your candle lit for Martinez!

Get over it.

ASH

Soon we will saying the same for Willock. Rinse and repeat is Arsenal’s matra.

Crash Fistfight

I honestly don’t think many people thought Leno was better at passing out from the back than Martinez at the time.

The risk was that Martinez hadn’t really looked that special up until those last 10 or so games of the season (if he did to you, then fair play, but I’d always thought he’d looked no more than OK). That was also with no crowds, BTW, something that still hasn’t been a factor since he’s been at Aston Villa. It’s unlikely, but it’s possible he won’t be as good when he’s got opposition fans screaming at him.

Vonnie

He did really well in the Europa League, we only lost when Mikel dropped him and played Leno.

Qwaliteee

Get over it?

Mate, as Blogs says, we are one bad reckless challenge away from a lengthy Leno injury aka being right up shit creek.

We all saw what happened to Leno against Brighton last year – has Arteta and his Stooges learned nothing?

It would seem so.

Mayor McCheese

Well, whatever. I just don’t see the point of continuing to cry about Martinez a year after the fact.

Qwaliteee

Because it’s a matter of this fan base recognising and holding this bogus hierarchy to account for their blatant ineptitude – that’s why.

Martinez should never have been sold – and neither, as we will see – should Willock.

Daveo

Well said Qwally

Daveo

Give us something not to cry about in relation to Arsenal then?

Aokaparagit

Hope we don’t.. Ramsdale is NOT good at all.. why can’t we just get Neto instead?

Crash Fistfight

Why couldn’t we just get Ryan? Talk about low-hanging fruit!

Heavenly Chapecoense

Be excited, Arsenal will get Werner from Chelsea at 11:00 PM, transfer market closing day.

Nkem

What’s really special about the players we are keeping, football is about goals you know

bendtnerschristmastree

What’s special is that other clubs don’t want them either

Sank

I still feel he was a good option from bench.

He had a knack like Ramsey to be in the box ans score unique goals which none of our current squad can.

Hope this doesn’t bite us.

NightMari

True all of that, but on the flipside, not only does this sale add to our spending firepower, but it also frees up a badly needed squad place ( we can only have, and register so many players, especially if we’re not playing in Europe this year ), to bench a player that is a current starter… something to keep in mind I reckon. 🙂

Hank Scorpio

Freeing up squad space works better when it’s deadwood. You’re also assuming the money will be spent wisely.

Zenithreptile

And assuming that money isn’t already spent???!

NightMari

In that case, we reaally need the money as a club, and this is great value for what we’re giving them, with all due respect to Willock.

But from all that we know, I am highly doubtful that we’ve spent all that we are going to spend in this window already.

NightMari

Well, based on the most recent evidence, i.e. this summer, we’ll spend it fine… White is obvious class, and Lokonga and Tavares defo seem talented and pretty good value for money. As for deadwood, yeah, we connect with the homegrown players that come out of the academy a bit more, of course, it’s completely understandable, but to from a purely footballing perspective I can’t think of a better definition of deadwood than a player who is so far off the starting 11 that you send him out on loan, and then bench him and barely use him once he comes… Read more »

Samgunz

He’s better than Iwobi, Iwobi still doesn’t know what his best position is, neither do his coaches, Joe also has great technique, strong and deceptively quick. His passing stats went down once he started playing further forward, if you look back he played most of his youth as a holding midfielder, losing big talent here.

Fabregooner

So your suggestion is that we sell no one and buy no one, because you don’t trust us to get it right? A fascinating policy, let’s see where we are in a couple of years with it.

Hank Scorpio

I made no such suggestion. You inferred it. That’s on you.

Fabulous

Unless we have a buyback clause in there somewhere then I really can’t see how this is a good deal. And as most have pointed out we’ll probably use that money on second rate transfer targets.

Teta's cult of personality

Unless we have a buyback clause in there somewhere then I really can’t see how this is a good deal.

I feel the exact same way. Unless the above is true, I don’t view this as a good deal.

He’s the 2nd most valuable England U21 midfielder in the country and this is how low AFC value him.

Stevorama

Come on mate. Willock had a hot spell at Newcastle, and massively outscored vs XG. Messi would have a wet dream at those XG / scoring figures. He’s decent and may improve, possibly, but much much more likely is that he’ll revert to the mean and score 5 goals all season for Newcastle. I hope he does well, I’ve got nothing against him, but £20m for a fringe player who had a streak that artificially inflated his value is great business in what is a ridiculously deflated market

Man Manny

He is homegrown, and under 21, remember?
He doesn’t take up any space in the squad, or does he?

NightMari

Umm, fair point maybe, not sure about this, I think maybe if we want him to count as one of our homegrown players than he would count and take up someone’s space, and if we don’t he still passes for a young player that we can just use freely… But even if he clears the bar from the formal viewpoint, looking at the actual competitions and the small amount of games we’ll be playing, there will only be minutes for a certain amount of players, and our squad is bloated as it is, as much as we’d want to keep… Read more »

Santa’s Thigh Grab

All U21’s can be registered to the first team and doesn’t impact the 25 player registration limit. Also can only have 17 non home grown, so yes, Willock didn’t impact either of those limitations. Good player, good kid, he will have a great career in non possession based teams. Transfer market is broken due to pandemic so fee is good for a young player. Good business.

Hurensohn

He’s homegrown, he doesnt take up squad space….

truj

Willock became the youngest player to score in six consecutive Premier League games thanks to winner against Sheffield United – then sell him…

Sachin

So Willock goes while we still have Willian on the books?

Now let’s sell Nelson and Niles for a packet of chips and retain mojo-less Bellerin and umm Cedric?

The money we get we can throw at fucking Tammy Abraham.

kasgood

Has the lesser spotted ‘Torreira’ been seen yet!

IamaGoober

Ultimately he’s a young pro — he’s never going to be perfect, but he’s got very raw attributes that for me, show promise that he can get better if he’s given time and minutes. But the critical thing is here, his output now, would be about the same if not better than someone like Xhaka or Elneny. It’s not going to be any worse — sure he’s maybe not as good with the ball, but there’s more ways to utilise possession. He can carry the ball effectively to break defensive lines, which literally none of our current midfield options bar… Read more »

Sachin

Martinelli didn’t play all that much in Tokyo to be fair but you are right about the rest of it.

With the fans all up in a tizzy… Mikel won’t survive beyond October if he doesn’t get the results.

No one believes in this rebuild.

IamaGoober

I guess because the rebuild is non existent, it’s all the same guys who have not been good enough for the last 5 years! And instead of selling them, we’re offering them new deals! It’s fucking bananas.

Tapps

I do.

Sachin

I laud your faith. Please prove us doubters wrong 🙏🏼

IamaGoober

Can I ask, what are you anticipating to be different from last season? And to be clear I totally respect your opinion and I dont want to seem that I am belittling it at all. I am just genuinely curious. Because for me, we have literally all of the same players from the previous campaign that secured a 9th place finish or maybe it was 10th I cant remember. but who cares. The manager is setting us up to play exactly the same way which saw us create basically zero goal scoring changes last season. Our xG in all of… Read more »

Awesomesauce25

I would love for him to have succeeded at Arsenal, but he did get plenty of game time and never really impressed. Even at Newcastle he was coming off the bench usually. He scored some goals, but those were usually late game throw everything at it scenarios. Arsenal should be attempting to build something better than that for sure. Whether they do or not remains to be seen.

Sachin

A player that can show up and is high on confidence is worth his weight in gold.

I’d love for him to take the ball of Laca and Auba who are deep in funk at this stage and get right into it.

The only way selling Willock is justified is if we get a goal scoring CM who is an upgrade. Which honestly I don’t see happening.

Teta's cult of personality

What game time? Last season under Arteta, Willock got 566 minutes across all competitions. 238 of those minutes were in 7 Premier League games and his average match duration was 33.5 minutes per match. Does that sound like enough game-time to aid development. As I said before, Willock started 11 games out of 14 at Newcastle. 3 goals were from the bench and 5 were as a starter. His average match duration was ~70 minutes per match It’s the same story with with AMN and Nelson (who actually agreed to a winter loan too). Some fans expect the player to… Read more »

Santa’s Thigh Grab

Not sure why the down votes, my man was just spitting facts.

Fabregooner

Would he have a chance of a game at City (no), Liverpool (no), Chelsea (no), Utd (he would come on as sub). Does anyone want to pay more than £20M for him? No. Is he worth more to us sitting on the bench this season than pocketing £20M we can use to buy a no 10/right back/CDM/back-up keeper? No.
Fans make things so complicated.

Sachin

Haha

“Fans make things so complicated”

Guess you aren’t one of them then.

The teams that you list are uncatchable in the next 2-3 years.

Your question should be: Can he help a side trying to fight for a European place – Spuds, West Ham, Leicester, Everton, Aston Villa.

Your answer should be: Let me not be a condescending asshole who thinks he is above the fans of the club.

Bleeding gums murphy

Ramsey averaged 6 goals a season in his time with us.

Vonnie

He was mostly rubbish but Arsene loved him.

Hank Scorpio

More than our current central midfield combined then….and that’s with being injury prone also

Jake

As much as I love the lad, I think this is a deal which makes sense for everyone, and it’s a reasonable fee given the current market.

I would have love to see him cement a starting place here, but I think relying on yet another young, developing player for the season and the immense improvements that we need to see ASAP would be a step too far and I feel would have backfired.

I wish him all the best, and hope we can put the money to good use.

Teta's cult of personality

 I think relying on yet another young, developing player for the season and the immense improvements that we need to see ASAP would be a step too far and I feel would have backfired.

I have two questions regarding this sentence

  1. Why did we sign Ben White and Sambi then?
  2. What was our table position last season when we were relying on experienced veterans?
Fezec

20m seems cheap considering the goals he scored last year and he’s English. But that’s comparing him to market value pre Covid when Brewster went for 60 billion or whatever it was. Guess we don’t know the new normal yet.

Also, is it every fan who thinks their club always over pays and under sells or is it an arsenal thing?

Teta's cult of personality

Perhaps it’s personal bias but underselling young talent really does feel like an Arsenal speciality. Even the often touted Ox (£35m) and Iwobi(£28m) fees were very much what their respective market values were at the time. No one has “overpaid” for Arsenal youngsters since Anelka and Overmars. Even Fabregas and Song went for below their market value. An example I remember is when Man Utd wanted to buy Sean Longstaff from Newcastle. Their first reported bid was £25m (already higher than Willock’s add-on) which was rejected. Newcastle were seeking for a fee closer to £50m. Of course that deal died… Read more »

loose_cannon

Agree with this, I’d even say Ox was a little cheap given his importance for us at the time, the fact he was a full England international, and that we were selling to a rival. The contrasting fortunes of both clubs since reinforces that view, it only looks like a great deal if you ignore that. That deal should also act as a cautionary tale, because we spent all the Ox money and more on Lacazette. We’re now potentially selling Willock and using that money to re-sign Xhaka and bring in Ramsdale for £32m! In short, selling a player can… Read more »

Teta's cult of personality

That deal should also act as a cautionary tale, because we spent all the Ox money and more on Lacazette.


Goodness. It reads like a horror novel doesn’t it?

John C

Arsenal’s transfer business has been shit for the best part of 15 years but that doesn’t improve if you’re not prepared to sell players you no longer want.

We have to take the best we can get for the likes of Willock, Xhaka, AMN, Nelson, Bellerin etc move on and accept it’s going to be expensive getting the quality replacements we need.

It’s the only way to break the cycle.

Teta's cult of personality

Not quite sure what you mean here. I think Arsenal has been prepared to sell players it no longer wants, many times. The players the club no longer wants and the players most of the fans no longer want can be quite different. Mustafi was wanted out by most fans by February 2017 but Arsenal didn’t start entertaining offers until August 2017 IMO, part of Arsenal’s selling issue has been haggling over respectable but loss-inducing fees over want-away senior players. We’ve haggled over fees for Xhaka (twice), Bellerin, Mustafi (thrice). Mhkitaryan and Lacazette to name a few. An accepted offer… Read more »

John C

What i mean is that Arsenal are one of the 10 largest clubs in the world and pay our players in line with that, which inevitably means when a player is no longer good enough for us we are selling to clubs with significantly less money, so a loss is a given. To make money from transfers we have to sell players when we don’t want to sell, otherwise we have to treat the loss a big club tax. The only way to break the cycle is to sell the unwanted players and replace them with wanted ones. The facts… Read more »

mjc1892

No, it’s definitely cheap. Our negotiating team are the worst in the entire league. Chelsea just took £18m on a 21 year old centre back who had the grand sum of zero Premier League appearances. Zero. It’s a fucking farce we keep selling players for what is comparatively peanuts.

John C

Our young players lose value because we play them too much, we only sell once it’s become clear we no longer want them. We’ve already lost any leverage in negotiation once thats the case.

Teta's cult of personality

Our young players lose value because we play them too much

If you mean that the change in their match minutes by the time they’re out of favour is noticeable to other clubs? Then I can see your perspective.

Otherwise, I don’t see how that claim makes sense.

John C

We play them enough for other teams to see they’re not top quality

Mayor McCheese

You have to understand that a) the sample size is a half season at Newcastle, and b) Willock’s success there has a lot to do with how Newcastle are set up and play, relying on disrupting opposition possession and hitting them on the counter. Do I think Arsenal would get the best out of Willock? Not really. Perhaps as a sub when chasing the game, but Willock would not be happy with that, and I don’t blame him.

Kris

The 78 games and 11 goals for us as well as multiple appearances/goals at international youth level surely count for something too. A bit like Martinez last season, this feels to me like one where the move is the right one for all parties, but I can’t help but think another club would have secured a higher fee in both cases.

Mayor McCheese

There is no nuance to the discussion. Either Arsenal fans say it’s fine or they get apoplectic and moan about Martinez and Xhaka.,,and the anger is then directed at anyone who says it’s fine.

The joy.

Riku

Emery who has shown what he knows with young players at Villarreal etc..have him 40games and brought him on for ozil in Europa final v Chelsea so he saw a future . Bruce thinks he has the next lampard. When Joe played lots of games for us he was a 6 foot skinny kid. He is now 6’3 muscular man !. I hope we have a buy back clause and a sell on clause. He could play for us as one of three heavy metal midfield players like ‘wilmaldhun’ at LFC in a klopp 433. With three athletes , (… Read more »

Ealing

you can’t grow 3 inches at that age lol

Riku

You can easy as a adolescent , people grow at different ages lol

truj

He scored 8 in 14 games!

Robh

On 14 shots. Scoring better than 1 in every 2 shots is not sustainable, Willock was the player in the league who most overperformed their expected goals.

A player who gets 1 shot per 90 won’t score more than 1 every 2 matches long term.

Mayor McCheese

And that’s definitely repeatable and a sure sign of what he can do week in and week out!

Riku

Worth trying Joe , we scoring poorrly last year , name a signing that has helped with that goalscoring ?

Mayor McCheese

Maybe. It’s just strange to me that the idea that the club should take a punt on Joe is the stick some fans are using to beat the club / manager. I really think some people believe that what Joe did at Newcastle was representative not only of his future but also what he would do for Arsenal.

Riku

Arteta has a clear plan , of pep style football tiki taka with a Stella midfield play maker e.g. kdb, thiagio at Bayern , xavi, inestia at Barca. Then a great lad like Joe comes along , Joe, he would fit in with a kloop style football tactics , but Arteta won’t compromise, which is ok, but then buys no midfielder to do this role . Hopefully ESR, can do it obviously but a lot of pressure and as a midfield er , both he and edu are worth criticism to say why you not addressing this key center midfield… Read more »

Riku

Arteta has a clear plan , of pep style football tiki taka with a Stella midfield play maker e.g. kdb, thiagio at Bayern , xavi, inestia at Barca.
Then a great lad like Joe comes along , would fit in with a kloop style football tactics , but Arteta won’t compromise, which is ok, but then buys no midfielder to do this role . Hopefully ESR, can do it obviously but a lot of pressure and as a midfield er , both he and edu are worth criticism to say why you not addressing this key center midfield role

Billy bob

Can’t say I am happy about this, getting shot of other players seems a struggle though!! Hope we don’t waste the money but instead invest in a quality attacking midfielder!!! On a side note what is up with Auba and Laca 😮

Anders Limpar

I’d rather keep the homegrown youngster with bags of potential, than hold onto Xhaka for the sake of a couple of million extra we can’t squeeze put of Roma! Arsenaly

SteveMorrowsCollarBone

We don’t actually know how far they were apart though do we. We could have said the same thing about AMN last year and that looks like a bad non-sale now.

Jean Ralphio

This midfield would not operate as well as it does without Xhaka and there were plenty of examples of that last season. Also there’s plenty of talent in the Arsenal academy more than capable of taking the Xhaka role.

Teta's cult of personality

The midfield doesn’t operate well with or without Xhaka. Virtually everytime we’ve played against a more athletic midfield, we’ve lost the midfield battle from the first minute. I wouldn’t call our midfield functional, it’s merely just getting by.

Anders Limpar

The fact is that mediocre Xhaka played as consistently mediocre as he always does and the rest of the team collapsed around him last season.

Rummy

We finished 8th. Not sure why no one thinks a pedestrian like midfield might have contributed to that.

Arsenalista

Operate as well? It doesn’t Operate well that’s partly the reason that we have no European football. I like Xhaka but we need an upgrade desperately, someone who moves the ball quickly and direct. Xhaka has been here 5 years and we have declined season after season, I know it’s not all his fault but he’s partly to blame.

Qwaliteee

You think our midfield “operates well”…….?!

🤣

SarcasmB0t

I think this midfield operates quite poorly, actually. Our two biggest issues last season were slow transition and chance creation – both of which are more midfield issues.

Teta's cult of personality

Precisely. We had a very similar scenario with Martinez and Leno last season. At least this time we had offers for both Xhaka and Willock.

What a puzzling decision. Argue over pennies for Xhaka but accept the lowest fee possible for your most promising midfielder.

£20 million doesn’t even get you a marquee Championship player these days.

Mayor McCheese

I don’t understand why people are comparing Xhaka and Willock, two completely different positions and completely different skill sets.

Robh

Willock plays largely as a 10, Xhaka as a 6 yet half these posts are saying it’s an either/or thing. Wild.

Hank Scorpio

It doesn’t need to be a comparison. From the bigger picture squad management and midfield composition perspective it’s hard to argue for extending Xhaka’s contract while selling Willock. It just means it will likely be harder to move on Xhaka and we lose a potent goal threat from the midfield.

loose_cannon

That’s actually the exact reason people are comparing them. One is a young, versatile, dynamic player that could be either a box-to-box or purely attacking midfielder. The other is a sclerotic, pedestrian midfielder that can only play one way and has typified our football for the last 5 years. That we are discarding the former and doubling down on the latter suggests a lot about the direction of this team.

John C

No it doesn’t, it’s quite clear the club is open to both them going.

Neither are the direction the management wants to go in

loose_cannon

If we’re really open to Xhaka going, and that’s not the direction we want to go in, why on Earth are we offering him a new, improved, long term deal as per The Athletic? And please don’t say we’re trying to protect his value at 28 years old, we’re just making him even harder to shift in the future. Could easily be another Ozil or Willian if that goes through.

John C

I have no idea, but we were close to selling him.

Personally i think offering Xhaka is a really stupid idea

Qwaliteee

This.

Thierry Bergkamp (non negotiable)

Hopefully there’s a plan to spend that money wisely. We’ll soon find out.

WellArsed

I have mixed feelings about this trade. It’s probably for the best for all concerned but I hope it doesn’t turn out to be something we regret in the future.

allezkev

Well you just know that every time plays Arsenal that he’ll score against us.

Hank Scorpio

And I wouldn’t begrudge him a Wellbeck style celebration

Arsenalista

I would

Hobart

So he’s being sold for roughly the same amount as Xhaka’s wages over the next 4 years……

Hank Scorpio

Gotta pay for those wages somehow

Walter White

Mixed feelings. I really hope it goes well for him personaly, but also hope we won’t get too many regrets selling him.
Did we sneak in a buy back clause just in case?

Nevertheless. Good luck to you Joe!

Leemillion

Here is a perfect opportunity to show that we are no longer transfer mugs with our youngsters.

I think selling him is the right thing to do based on we need money but the people at the top should be putting clauses in that contract either buy-back, sell-on fee or both.

Teta's cult of personality
  • Ollie Watkins – £33m
  • Jarrod Bowen – £25m
  • Ben Godfrey – £24.75m
  • James Maddison – £22.5m
  • Adam Webster – £22m
  • Marc Guehi – £21m
  • Oliver McBurnie – £20m

Going from the Championship to the Premier League, these are the fees that the above homegrown players went for. The fact that £25m is the highest we can get for selling Willock, an U21 midfielder with 9G/1A in 54 Premier League appearances is incredibly disappointing.

John C

The difference being we want to sell those clubs didn’t

Teta's cult of personality

Yeah, Liverpool and Chelsea were dying to keep Brewster and Guehi, weren’t they?🙄

Based on your theory, Fabregas, Clichy, Cole, RvP and Gnabry must have been want-away players.

John C

He didn’t list either of those players and yes, Fabregas, Clichy, Cole, RvP and Gnabry all wanted to leave, which is why we got a pittance for them

SteveMorrowsCollarBone

What I don’t understand is how we never seem to create a market for a player? This is a player with plenty of first team appearances, scored and made plenty in the UEFA cup, and scored plenty in the Prem for a lower mid table team while on loan. And only Newcastle are interested?

Luther

Interesting how differently people spin similar situations involving different players. With regards to Xhaka, people say that if he was that good, bigger clubs than Roma would be trying to sign him. But when it comes to Willock, no one says that if he was that good, someone better than Newcastle – who are way beneath Roma – would be in for him. In this case, it shows that we can’t “create a market for a player”.

Teta's cult of personality

Arseblog, via RMC Sport, literally reported that AS Monaco contacted Joe Willock just a few days ago. Yes, clubs and agents create artificial markets for players all the time. Just look at how many players get linked to Arsenal all the time, most of whom we know we are not realistically signing. There was an attempt to create artificial interest by linking Xhaka to Juventus, obviously it didn’t work.

Xhaka, as a Swiss international captain and 5 year veteran in the Premier League ideally should have more suitors than Roma and Hertha Berlin.

SteveMorrowsCollarbone

Ok it’s not that we don’t. We just do it so badly and openly. Its not just public rumours there should be a bunch going on that we don’t know about. It’s what I thought Raul would help us with. A bit of savvy but I mistook savvy for bent.

Luther

And if Willock is such a great prospect, then he should have more suitors than Newcastle and (allegedly) Monaco.

Either both statements are true, or neither is – you can’t have one logic for one and a different logic for the other.

loose_cannon

The only club that was seriously in for ESR was Aston Villa, I guess that makes him rubbish too? As the post above says, you would expect a bigger market from top clubs for a proven player in their prime. One that has started for us for the last 5 years. To even compare it to Willock is kinda crazy imo.

OurTitA

This!

Giuseppe Hovno

if this helps us get an even better attacking midfielder to go alongside ESR, then I’m fine with this. sad to see Joe go, but sometimes it is just better to cash in

Merlin’s Panini

It does point towards the necessity of a signing in that department so fingers crossed it’s one of Aouar or Maddison.

Nostalgic Gooner

Two words: Emi Martinez

El Mintero

Two words: Alex Iwobi

DialSquareGoon

Three words: Let it go.

Disarmed Gunner

Four words: Martinez better than Leno.

Santa’s Thigh Grab

Five Words: No feckin market for Leno.

Luther

Eight words: In your opinion, but you’re not an expert!

A Different George

Oh Jesus. We had Emi for a decade, went on loan a couple of times, not especially successful. Would probably have been sold for less than 2 million at the beginning of his last season with us. Played very well for a half season, got a big offer and wanted to leave. No one did anything wrong.

SarcasmB0t

Emi didn’t want to leave – Leno does. What SHOULD have been done was the club should have tried to lock down one of the two to a long-term contract. If Emi was the one willing to sign and Leno wasn’t, we should have tried to move Leno. I understand there wasn’t much interest in Leno, but you have to wonder how much of that was because we were openly shopping Martinez. And maybe if there isn’t a market for a player you consider superior because they’re on too high wages, you might want to re-think the entire wage structure… Read more »

BongoGooner

Wanted to keep. but i hope we get buy back and/or sell on clauses

Good luck joe, always liked you

loose_cannon

“During a summer when we’ve struggled to offload players (and already spent more than £70 million) it’s a deal that Arsenal fans will begrudgingly agree makes sense.” Probably should speak for yourself. I think many fans would be scratching their heads if their club was selling one of their best prospects, one that’s showed real premier league quality in one of our problem positions, while keeping dross like Willian and handing out a new contract to Xhaka. It’s almost as if instead of rectifying the mistakes of the past, we’re doubling down on them in the hope of a big… Read more »

Giuseppe Hovno

Agree with you re Xhaka’s new contract but the mistakes of the past also include repeatedly waiting too long to sell players when we should have cashed in, see: Maitland-Niles, Nketiah, Aubamayang, Ozil, Ramsey, Sanchez etc

loose_cannon

Most of the players you’ve mentioned were entering their 30s and running down their contracts, a very different situation from what’s happening with Willock, and more similar to Xhaka. As far as I’m aware we have never received a half decent offer for Nketiah, but if we do I’m pretty sure we’ll sell. We did have an offer for AMN but there’s no guarantee he’d have gone even if they reached our valuation, given Wolves likely wanted him to play wing back and he’d prefer to play in midfield.

Batistuita

I agree with you 100 percent… collect the money and run, u never can tell, see Maitland Niles last season, wanted by wolves, did they come back???… I just hope we insert buy back, or sell on fees, we need to copy Chelsea model, use academy to generate funds and invest it in established players that can buy u instant success, this is our only escape route, else we are doomed, cos kronkees not ready to invest, Chelsea is buying lukaku, 50 percent of that fee is generated from academy, … Think we missed a trick on matheus Pereira, if… Read more »

ClockEndRider

But the club isn’t selling one of its best prospects, is it?

DPK

No, we’re not. I think the outrage over selling Willock is more to do with the overall ongoing shit show that is the state of our squad. This is a good deal. Now let’s deal with some of the other (harder) stuff we need to sort out.

loose_cannon

It’ll only be a good deal if we use that money wisely enough that we’re better off than if we kept Willock. If we spend it on signing Ramsdale for £32m, it won’t look so clever!

Pookins

Even worse if we spend it on Tammy Abraham.

loose_cannon

After Saka and Smith-Rowe, which prospect has done more to impress you than Willock? I’m a little shocked how easily some have dismissed what he did at Newcastle in the top flight.

Luther

Martinelli! I’d even put Nketiah and AMN ahead of Willock. Nothing against Willock; I wish he was good enough for us, but sadly, he isn’t.