Tuesday, July 16, 2024

Report: West Ham rebuff Arsenal’s first offer for Rice

Various sources are reporting this morning that West Ham United have rejected Arsenal’s first offer for Declan Rice.

Hammers CEO David Sullivan has been waiting for the Gunners to make their first move for a week and it’s hardly a surprise we didn’t table a bid that matches his expectations. After all, that’s not how negotiations work.

There’s talk that we wanted to hand over £80 million up front with a further £10 million in add-ons. West Ham have briefed that they will only do business if a package tops £100 million; £18 million more than Arsenal’s current club-record transfer fee.


It’s believed Arsenal will make a second offer in the coming days.

Just to spice things up, it looks as though West Ham – or another interested party, agents perhaps? – have leaked that Manchester City are ‘actively exploring’ an offer of their own. It’s not the first time Pep Guardiola’s side have been linked with Rice but in recent weeks, it’s been Bayern Munich who’ve looked like more of a threat.

Honestly, we wouldn’t read too much into it. ‘Late twist’ narratives are ridiculously common at this time of year and the majority of the time they come to nothing.

Arsenal have been quietly confident about getting their man since January.

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AlexNuggz

Do the deal Edu, £90 Million with £11 Million add-ons! COYG

Qwaliteee

I hope you’re right mate.

I have so had it with this club low-balling and penny-pinching.

If I was Arteta, I’d be going mental at Edu and Garlick.

The money is there; it’s high time this fucking club grew a fucking pair and actually started acting like Arsenal Football Club should.

Eric Blair

Hardly penny-pinching, the first offer smashed our previous record!

If they’re confident Rice only wants us we can afford to negotiate. If we can save 10m to 15m here it can go into the Mbappe pot 😉

Heavenly Chapecoense

“If they’re confident Rice only wants us” is a big if.
That “if” is as big as a mountain. Benzema wanted to finish his career at Real Madrid a couple of weeks ago. He now is saying he wanted to live and play his football near the Mecca….of money.
Mbappe is insisting to spend his last year at PSG to do things right and be loyal. That will allow him to get half of the 200M of transfer fee avoided by Real.

Cannon and ball and arsen’all

Or perhaps arsenal know that Rice has made his decision on who he wants to join (and agreed personal terms) – and therefore face no real prospect of a bidding war as the player cannot be forced to go somewhere that he does not want to?

A Different George

From everything we know, Rice wants to stay in London for his family, and wants to play in the Champions League (otherwise he would stay at West Ham, where he is adored, with an enormous wage increase). Notice that Ornstein, the most reliable of sources, emphasised that Arsenal have made a first offer–not that West Ham have rebuffed the offer. He’s saying; “okay, real negotiations have begun.” Please, everyone, relax.

Cannon and ball and arsen’all

Exactly. West Ham know he is leaving and have said this much. For a player of this calibre it is starling how few clubs are being linked let along making formal bids. This tells us most of what we need to know. Ultimately to West Ham he is a rapidly declining asset – he wants to leave and won’t sign a new deal, and they have agreed to him that he can leave. Of course they could reject all offers and force him to stay – but is a club captain who doesn’t want to be there set the kind… Read more »

Alberto Balsam Mendez Rodriguez

I get that you are trying to be rational,
but the point is surely that we need to panic and get really stressed and we all need to hyperventilate for the next two months, until we discover that Arsenal have spent their entire transfer budget on a player who used to play for Chelsea, who is also probably the antichrist and worse still, likes Coldplay.

Frosty

… and Maroon 5.

Alberto Balsam Mendez Rodriguez

Well that’s a horrible thought

OdalGooner

I will not have you put the Antichrist into such questionable company!!

Qwaliteee

Yeah. Hilarious.

If we miss out on Declan Rice, then let’s see you laughing again next May when City – with Rice in their ranks – win the title yet again.

Or maybe perhaps that’s what you want.

It Is What It Is

Mudryk?

Frank Bascombe

What Arsenal Football Club are you on about then mate?

Qwaliteee

The one that is SUPPOSED to be challenging for the ECL and the EPL next season.

We have now left the door open for City to sign Rice and we have also withdrawn our interest in Caicedo.

What kind of Arsenal do YOU think we should be?

Qwaliteee

All you downvoters.

According to the Times Arsenal have removed their interest in Caicedo. Chelsea are now the front runners.

And according to the Telegraph, another club (probably City) will be submitting a bid for Rice in the next 24 hrs.

Don’t forget to down vote now.

Cannon and ball and arsen’all

I’m disappointed in regards to caciedo too – but I’ve seen a few links with Roman lavia surfacing today – probably half the cost.. What you reckon?

Qwaliteee

Yep, I’ve seen the link and as a plan b for Caicedo, I guess we could do a lot worse.

Just really disappointed regarding Caicedo; the prospect of him, Rice and Odegaard in that middle of the park would have been incredible.

But there you go. It was too good to be true after all. Fucking typical……

Naked Cygan

He is not worth that much. He is a great player, but over hyped and over priced. We should target more transfers in the Martin Odegard and Trossard price range and quality. The players are out there because Brighton have done an excellent job with recruitment and I am sure with the right ppl we can make smart choices. Just throwing 100m + for one player is not super smart unless we are planning to spend another 200-300 million.

Funsho Patrick

Thank you!

Qwaliteee

Just to cheer you and your hair shirt chums up even further, we have withdrawn our interest in Caicedo.

Party on. Treat yourself.

Cannon and ball and arsen’all

I don’t really agree that he is overhyped or overpriced. He is worth what the market is willing to pay. He has performed to a remarkable level for an average team – the market speculates what value he could bring to a better team – my feeling is he could be a game changer for us. Perhaps there is a bargain out there that could do the same job – but we are not a Brighton who can buy cheap and speculate due to limited expectations

Zenithreptile

£10,000,001 in add ons, surely?

Sakatatties

Edu will have to golinhada for him

T.A.

Fasten your seatbelts. But I still prefer Caicedo.

Qwaliteee

Forget it pal.

Edu has withdrawn his interest.

Funsho Patrick

Am I missing something? Is there really no one in Europe or south America with his same skillset? Not a proven goalscorer or creator….An athlete whose super power is interceptions and carrying the ball…..I would offer an extra 5m with 15m in add one(most of it being for winning the champions League) then ghost westham before signing the next person on our list .. probably a 20year old Brazilian that costs 10m and also named Gabriel 😀

A Different George

Yes, I think you are indeed missing something. He is one of the best players in England at his position (which is less involved about scoring or creating–where we have been pretty damn good–and more about preventing goals, where we have been lacking), he is young, tall, with a lot of Prem experience, captain of his team, and a leader for his national team. We are trying to challenge to win the league–and if we do not *improve* we cannot do it.

Qwaliteee

And your suggestion is……………

Mikels Arteta

Granit Xhaka

Cannon and ball and arsen’all

There probably is – but it will usually take a smaller team in the prem road testing them before a more established club will take them on. This of course costs money – but you could spend £17m on a talented young Belgian that is captain of a successful side and makes the Belgian squad for the first time – and attitude of the big club fan base is that they are not good enough right now – and they will therefore be criticised and chided and told they are not good enough until they are forced to go out… Read more »

It Is What It Is

£90M + £10,000,001.00 in add-ons. Deal done. It’s not matching a release clause but, that’s what they’re asking for.

Johnny 4 Hats

A 100,000 people are probably asking this same question at the mo. But…

How can a club have detailed discussions with another club for 6 months and then submit a bid they reject without thinking?

It just seems weird. What were they talking about all this time?

Johnny 4 Hats

Also, I think people will freak out about city. I’m a bit more chill.

We have been chatting to Declan for a long time and he is settled in London with a young family.

Pep is leaving soon and city have legal issues.

It’s a bit of a brown trouser moment, I admit. And we were all a bit naive to think we wouldn’t get any competition. But I think it will be fine.

Anon

I think we need to be chill even if they beat us to him. Shit like this can always happen.

I’m sure we will do some good business and be stronger next season either way.

daveg

It’s just click hate fake news. Last year Arsenal made an unwelcome bid of £52 million, when he then had two years remaining on his contract, but West ham refused this offer because they wanted £75 million. Do you think Arsenal would bid more than the £75 million West ham wanted last year with Rice now only having one year remains on his contract. It’s fake news!

jeremy

I don’t think about the player. I trust Edu to find a suitable plan B. The issue is what this situation would represent. A club who are already dominating English and European football and have 115 ffp charges against them are able to just go out and spunk 100 million on another midfielder to add to their expensive pokemon collection…thus widening the competitive gap with everyone else. It would just feel to me like… whats the point of it all?

Johnny 4 Hats

I agree.

But I worry about a situation where we miss Rice and Caicedo.

As regards position, age and premier league experience, there’s no one else on the market like them.

Also, it’s just a bad look given are so tacitly in love with them. And then the Mudryk u-turn will be again lamented.

Anon

Not too many teams can gazump us at this point I feel. City and Real Madrid obviously. Chelsea and United can try but we should be a more attractive destination if we are prepared to stump up the cash.

Hopefully we get one or the other, or better still both.

It doesn’t make us look good when it happens. Probably just have to put our money where our mouth is at some point tbh.

Eric Blair

Why worry? There are thousands of footballers out there. We missed out on Mudryk and it turned out fine. Get out there and enjoy the summer and see where we are when the season starts!

Johnny 4 Hats

I refuse to enjoy the summer and absolutely will allow this, and every transfer window, to ruin it.

OdalGooner

Thank you!! We’re one of the best and most attractive clubs in the world, yet people are going berserk that “other clubs could overpower us in the market”. YA THINK?! How do you think fans of thousands of other clubs feel? We’re one of the few “not-run-by-suspicious-criminals” clubs that are actually able to compete. A year ago, we were all holding our breath, hoping we’d finish 4th for once. We had a brilliant season. With all those “underwhelming” signings like Ramsdale, Odegaard, et al. Go sit outside, open some nice chilly Riesling, and wait for this whole thing to blow… Read more »

😇🚗☀️

Are you telling people to have some cheese with their whine?

Qwaliteee

Start worrying Johnny.

Times/Mail/Everyone Now reporting that we’ve removed our interest in Caicedo.

And a City bid for Rice incoming in the next 24hrs.

WTF is Edu up to…..?

OdalGooner

“everyone” is trying to make gullible people click their links. If you’re not at the table, you don’t know. Remember when the papers came out once a day? We still signed players. We just didn’t get to panic every 7 seconds because some media outlet needed to sell 500.000 ads.

Bleeding Gums Murphy

If rice goes to city he will probably find himself on the bench alongside Phillips. He ain’t replacing Rodri. He will join us if we just stump up the money. If we don’t he won’t. Simple’s

Anon

West Ham are taking the piss tbh, 120m is too much

Qwaliteee

They haven’t asked for £120m

They want £100m

We bid £80m – a complete waste of everyone’s time.

Anon

Various sources have said 120m but you may be right.

80m is also a waste of everybody’s time.

OmoOba

@Qwalitee, it seems you enjoy ‘worrying’ for a living😋!

Qwaliteee

Heh. People who think lowballing with a first bid is purely ‘Par for the Course’ and ‘nothing to worry about’ clearly have a problem understanding that lowballing might have been ok back in the day behind closed boardroom doors before the internet and Twitter – but not nowadays. Once that failed bid becomes public knowledge, then guess what – other richer clubs will start a bidding war that we cannot compete with. It happened with Mudryk and it’s now in danger of happening with Rice. I cannot understand why, yet again, Arsenal have gone in with a bid that is… Read more »

Johnny 4 Hats

Thanks Andrew. That does make more sense. I suppose my follow up would be why are we having detailed discussions with a player that we might not even manage to sign? I was under the impression that arsenal were piling all their resources into this transfer. I just assumed that involved discussions with WHU. This isn’t a criticism by the way. I know how smart we are. And yeah, I know the transfer window has just opened. But we’ve spent all week with the “arsenal inching closer to a deal” stories. I suppose I just didn’t realise that was just… Read more »

Qwaliteee

Johnny, we’re doing exactly the same as we did we Mudryk and Caicedo in January. The same as we did with Higuain and Benzema and Suarez and the rest.

We are a fucking joke when it comes to getting marquee signings done.

I honestly thought Edu and Co had learned their lessons……

A Different George

I thought Alexis and Ozil were marquee statement signings, as well as Aubameyang.

Qwaliteee

Dude, those signings – all pre-Edu – were all made nearly a decade ago.

What about NOW?

What the fuck is Edu up to….?

Apparently we have now removed our interest in Caicedo….?

How the actual fuck are we supposed to challenge next year in the ECL and the EPL?

Kai fucking Havertz…?

😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

A Different George

Ramsdale, White, Tomiyasu, Odegaard. Gabriel Jesus, Zinchenko, Trossard. None were “statement” signings. Unless transforming your team is a statement.

Qwaliteee

I’m talking about marquee signings…hello?

Eat more carrots.

89 again

Sounds like your main mistake has been putting any trust in ‘all of the stories’ it’s (more) bullshit season in football media.

Johnny 4 Hats

Yup. You’re almost definitely right!

I have four dogs and when one of them barks, it quickly spreads throughout the others. Before you know it, they are all going mental at a perceived threat that probably doesn’t exist.

Transfer stories often seem real because lots of people report them. But if the original information is bogus then it’s all bogus.

Emi Rates

Does each dog have four hats like their master as well? If so that’s a lot of hats.

OdalGooner

Perhaps the real question is “Does he actually wear dogs as hats?” Are we supposed to believe 4 is a coincidence?

Goonerrific

If someone puts their house up for sale for £500,000, you don’t just pay that amount, regardless of your conversation with them – odd to leak it though guess it works in Wet Spams favour

Johnny 4 Hats

Yeah, but if a house costs £500,000 and you chat to the owners and they say they’ll accept £485,000 then it’s pretty pointless to offer £450,000.

Vonnie

It really isn’t, you’d probably get it for £460,000, most bids eventually meet somewhere in the middle. It also depends how much the player wants a specific club, unless they’re bullied and intimidated like Mudryk was.

Daveo

Don’t know where you live, but I’m the current housing market pretty much every house goes over asking. Not the best analogy.

Vonnie

Not my analogy, my point still stands, most negotiations end up somewhere in the middle.

CLEGooner

Have you purchased a house? Is that how it went?

If they say they will accept 485 k, you don’t offer 485k straight off.

Qwaliteee

Depends if you’ve got Pep Guardiola on the phone to the estate agent.

In which case the house of your dreams has GONE.

Qwaliteee

Anything more than £100,000 and the sanctimonious misers on this thread would go into meltdown.

arseblog

Dude – you need to calm down a bit. Having a first bid rejected is par for the course.

Kanu Believe It

I swear qwaliteee is Gelion from the Guardian BTL section.

Qwaliteee

You’d be lucky to get a cardboard box on the Victoria Embankment if it was down to this lot….

A Different George

In fact, we were having detailed discussions with a player we are confident of signing. He has one year left on his contract and has refused to sign a new one; West Ham can sell him now or force him to stay one more year when he can leave for free. That makes no sense for anyone, but West Ham must keep this threat in reserve or they have no bargaining power whatsoever. This is especially true if, as I think is the case, there is little or no chance that any other team’s higher offer would be agreed to… Read more »

Crash Fistfight

Presumably there’s nothing to stop them from talking to the other club in that time?

Fair enough we don’t understand the process as lay-people, and fair enough we might be oversimplifying things, but why is it that other deals can be agreed by clubs before transfer windows open (Jude Bellingham and Joao Mario as two recent examples, Cody Gakpo as one from the previous window), yet Arsenal don’t submit bids until the transfer windows actually open (see Rice this window and Mudryk the last)?

Qwaliteee

Yet…..

Daveo

Seriously, bid the stated amount. GTF on with it. Stan will be ok without that illusive 47th ivory back scratcher.

Goonerrific

Fingers crossed you aren’t head of the clubs finances

Daveo

Oh yeah, thank the gods we have billionaires at the head of football and world finances, they’re crushing it… Well for themselves anyway…

Qwaliteee

Yeah. Heaven forbid we strengthen the squad with world class talent.

Qwaliteee

Mate, how dare you suggest we pay market forces?

Turn away from the evils of paying £20m extra, Don your hair shirt and repeatedly swear blind that this world class talent isn’t worth it to make yourself feel better.

We have Xhaka departing, an injured Elneny and Sambi Lokonga.

Go out into the sunshine.

Everything is fine.

Santi’s Thigh Grab

I think it’s more of our club speaking with the player and players representatives. No reason to speak with the club unless you work things out with the player first.

Qwaliteee

I think it’s more you living in denial that this club couldn’t bid it’s way out of a paper bag.

Dave

£100’000’001

Cygan’sbaldspot

The next time I see this joke, or a “praise Jesus” type joke, I’m going to jump off a cliff

Bishop

Hallelujah

Ealing

Go on then

daveg

J, good article, I think their are a lot of people in the media, not all, but some, who are hoping Arsenal over spend on players, so that they have little budget left to build in key areas. For example, I heard that Arsenal made an unwelcome bid of £52 million for Rice and That Westham was hoping for nearer £75 million, which was the figure quoted last year, when he had 2 years remaining on his contract. Some media, but not all, are trying to convince the world that the figure being renegotiated is £100 million, due to a… Read more »

Jackie

Your sources are wrong, bro 🌝

yes

Ah great thanks daveg, we’ll all just go ahead and ignore Ornstein and his proven track record of transfer insight and tuck into this delicious word salad you’ve prepared for us instead. I see you’ve arbitrarily sprinkled some numbers in there too, very nice.

Arslet

I’m so fucking depressing but the feeling is that this deal is fucked. To much Mydryk over it.

wrightstuff8

Hmm I’m not so sure. Genuinely think Rice wants in on Super Miks project. City entering the race would be a problem but sounds like guff to me.

yes

“Genuinely think Rice wants in on Super Mik’s project” – my guy if “wanting in” was enough to seal a deal then Mudryk would be playing in the Champions League next season. We can curry favour with Rice all we want but money talks loudest, and if City gazump us then that’s likely where he’s going.

A Different George

If that were the only consideration, everyone would be in the Saudi league next year.

89 again

You don’t have enough information to make any determination either way. None of us do.

Qwaliteee

We have a track record though with trying to sign the very top marquee players – and it ain’t impressive.

jeremy

Bit early to say. I hope I am wrong but I don’t arsenal are or ever will be ready to sign players at this level. Rich clubs will simply wait to see what we offer and outbid us at the last moment to add to their pokemon collection of football stars.

Anon

You get to the point where you have to wonder if he is really worth the money.

If money is no object (as it is for City) that’s one thing, but some of the figures quoted (ie 120m) seem pretty unreasonable. We could do a lot with that.

Qwaliteee

Who would you sign then?

And don’t say Caicedo; Arteta wants him IN ADDITION to Declan Rice.

Anon

I dunno I’m not a football scout.

Our entire forward line cost less than that and it rocks.

Eric Blair

Caicedo

Qwaliteee

According to AFTV Arsenal have withdrawn their interest in Caicedo.

Next……..

Santi’s Thigh Grab

You are wrong. Hope that helps you feel better.

Santi’s Thigh Grab

Relax, go for a walk in the woods, watch a babbling brook, the window is always the same and worrying about things beyond your control is a pointless waste of emotional energy. Arsenal will get Rice, unless he joins City which would mean he’s not an Arsenal player and he wouldn’t fit our project. If Arteta wants a player and the player wants Arsenal, we get the player. Mudryk special case due to the war. Breathe.

Qwaliteee

Mudryk was eventually signed by Chelsea because we went in with two pathetic low ball bids that Shakhtar Donetsk probably thought Edu got out of a Christmas Cracker.

Subsidian

Mate you need to lay off the drink for a bit. As soon as you’ve had a couple you start flip flopping your outraged opinion every time you see a new tweet tagged @arsenal. Breathe.

Qwaliteee

Just cough up the fucking £18m difference and stop pissing about.

Fucking low balling YET AGAIN.

And now, surprise surprise, City are beginning to sniff around.

We never learn. We never ever fucking learn.

Quit sodding about penny pinching, Arsenal – THE MONEY IS THERE.

JUST DO IT.

El Mintero

Calm down. Just part of negotiations.

Daveo

No, no, no @Qwaliteee. We must “balance the finances”. How dare you suggest our multi-billionaire spend but one dollar extra of his hard-earned, ethical, just dollars. If not surely we’d just be punished under FFP! Right…right!?

Mikels Arteta

How much cocaine have you had today? Absolutely raging it on here

Qwaliteee

Mate, before you start casting aspersions about class A drugs on me, check out the rest of this thread and have a look at those earnest clowns caught up in a comedic war of communism v capitalism – because Arsenal have lowballed West Ham and wimped out of signing Caicedo.

Redbaron

Rice is overpriced

Qwaliteee

And who would you bring in instead?

Fezec

Think of the nectar points though…

jeremy

Heeeere we go…second offer will take 2 weeks to put together. Get rebuffed. City will match the asking price. Rice will go to City (or Chelsea). I am no expert in how transfers work but would it be fair to assume that Arsenal feel out what West Ham are willing to accept before they make an offer, knowing full well that any offer which gets rejected will be immediately in the public domain?

Qwaliteee

We never ever learn.

If this goes tits up, then Edu and Garlick will have some explaining to do to Arteta.

What is the fucking point of Arteta identifying who he wants and Josh putting up the money, only for Edu to start pratting about and low balling yet again………….?

Emi Rates

Why the fuck would he go to Chelsea? To listen to Mudryk’s hard luck story?

He’ll go anywhere but there. Even staying another year at West Ham, a well run club who wins things, is preferable to the Chelsea Shit Show.

jeremy

Money. It doesn’t matter how many nice conversations Rice has had with Edu, Mikel, etc. He will go to the highest bidder. Because that is how football works. Also his agent is a Chelsea season ticket holder.

Emi Rates

Something tells me that last season’s car crash will find it hard to compete for the top talent regardless how much money they throw at it this time. Don’t forget that players also want to win trophies.

jeremy

You’d like to think so. I guess I am just a little cynical when it comes to footballers motivations.

Daveo

Footballers motivations were corrupted by greedy agents and owners decades ago. Most still want to win football, but when you get to head home and roll around in piles of money not matter winning or losing it’s not quite as important as it used to be.

Ealing

When you can’t offer CL you need to pay more in terms of wages,

Emi Rates

Well if some “experts” here insist that Rice would go to Chelsea for more money then more fool him if he did. Personally I couldn’t care less as I’m sure Edu would find something else decent enough to fill that spot.

portugunner

serious?
so let him go and eat the money…

Emi Rates

Adding to that point, let him put the extra pound notes in his empty trophy cabinet when his 8 year contract expires.

A Different George

Yeah, except that according to David Sullivan, Rice turned down a huge wage increase to 200,000 a week that meant he left 10 million pounds on the table over the past 18 months. (If my arithmetic skills are reliable, I think this means he is currently on about 75,000 a week.)

Santi’s Thigh Grab

Arsenal don’t want to overpay and West Ham don’t want to leave money on the table. Process is fairly standard so far. If Rice doesn’t come, we move on Caceido, we aren’t getting them both.

Qwaliteee

We have withdrawn out of the race for Caicedo.

All the fun of the fair with Edu and Garlick.

Sheldon

Rice is not worth 100million. And Caicedo is better than him. We should buy him instead.

Qwaliteee

Arteta wants both.

Everyone knows that – except you, apparently.

Ealing

It strengthens our hand to say we want either Rice or Caicedo. If we really want both, you need to get them at the same time. Otherwise when you announce Rice, Brighton will say Caicedo costs more. Or viceversa. Others may argue that if we get Rice, we can tell Brighton we don’t need Caicedo that much as we’ve got already Rice. I personally don’t think we will get both

Sheldon

No one knows anything, especially you, that is quite apparent.

Qwaliteee

We have pulled out of the race for Caicedo and Man City will table a bid for Rice in the next 24 hrs.

WAKE UP.

Emi Rates

Cue a load of moaners high on “Ohmahgawd we’re such penny pinchers, Arteta out” and then that fun guy who posts about how he hates rich people all the time.

Then later we land Rice or some other great player.

jeremy

Everyone who says they hate rich people is an outrageous hypocrite. I am not saying that mega wealthy people aren’t often awful…I am just saying that if someone who says they hate rich people is given the opportunity to be rich themselves, they are hardly going to say ‘no thanks’.

Anon

Obviously but you can be rich and still be a good person.

When you get to the point where you are prepared to push other people into poverty and destitution or deprive them of basic essentials like healthcare when you already have far more money than you could ever realistically need you probably need to think about what kind of person that makes you.

jeremy

Agreed.

Emi Rates

I agree and I’d like to add to your point, Chelsea asking 70 million for Havertz are having a laugh. He’s a 40 million quid player tops!

Daveo

No thanks. I’ve rebuffed offers to earn much in industry but it would have been selling my soul and contributing to us crushing the planet we live in. Not everyone is a greedy pig, some people genuinely want to live in a healthier way, on a healthier planet. In the famous words of John McClane, Kumbaya MF…

Emi Rates

Exactly! There are those of us who look at what we have and can say it’s enough, I don’t need to sell my soul or humiliate myself or suffer for a bit more.

I walked away from a career a few years ago when my work place became awful. I did so knowing I’d be on a lot less money and I’m yet to regret it. Too many people think it’s all about money. It really isn’t.

Mr Dob Bobalina

FYI: Communism is a major ideology, central to 20th century history, that rejects being rich.

Emi Rates

A major ideology marked by two major traits, inequality and genocide.

Badaab

Your surface level criticism of communism here is as influenced by capitalist indoctrination as it is shallow.

Emi Rates

I suppose you’re right, it wasn’t all mass murder and inequality. There was corruption, work camps, no freedom of speech, severe restriction of free movement and imperialist wars too.

portugunner

… all things we don‘t know in capitalism! 🤣🤣🤣

Anon

Don’t think the soviet union ever really had communism.

Was just another way for evil men to gain support so they could put themselves into power and stay there (like a lot of things).

Emi Rates

And the other countries who suffered under it? Did they not have communism either? Or is it just a rubbish excuse for what is and will always be a horribly oppressive and blood thirsty ideology? How many million murders will it take for some people to wake up?

Daveo

How many million murders and social repressions and environmental destruction will it take for some to wake up on capitalism? It’s broken and it’s broken the humanity and the world. Nobody is calling for Soviet style dictatorships. But more equitable economies that don’t allow billionaires through exponentially increasing taxation with increasing wealth – hell yeah. A system where failing fossil fuels profits aren’t artificially propped up by tax payers – hand outs to the rich – hell yeah. Things can be much different and better, but you make it a nonsense binary argument that it’s the great capitalism Vs the… Read more »

Emi Rates

I haven’t said a word in defence of capitalism. It wasn’t me who brought up communism either. I am however disgusted that there are people here actually defending that murderous ideology. Like spewing the old magical thinking trope of “oh THAT wasn’t communism” for example.

Billy bob

Don’t they reckon that 10% wealthiest contribute to 80% global warming etc?

Anon

You need to look up communism. It has nothing to do with dictators, death camps or restricting freedom of speech. That’s just what you get when you have a lunatic like Hitler or Stalin in control.

Anon

Not saying I think it’s a good idea, it sounds good on paper

Emi Rates

OK, “communism has nothing to do with oppression. Except for Stalin it was one endless love-in.”.

That’s my guffaw of the week taken care of. Thank you very much.

Sulla

Pol Pot and Chairman Mao with Marxist -Leninist ideology. Collective farming at its best!

portugunner

what about a few millions of slaves sold by colonialist-communists…

Emi Rates

“Don’t think the soviet union ever really had communism.”

Don’t think Nazi Germany ever really had national socialism too?

Daveo

Socialism had nothing to do with the Nazis. They included the word (along with nationalist) as propaganda to attract people from different political interests to their cause. Their roots are far right, basically fascist.

Emi Rates

And first price for missing my point entirely goes to you. Collect your prize at the nearest breadline. Don’t forget to bring your string bag.

Daveo

How can you expect anyone else to understand the points you’re trying to make here, when it looks pretty clear you don’t understand them.

Emi Rates

I understand the logic behind the excuse that “such and such was/is worse so communism was not so bad”, but it’s an apologist falsehood that lets a heinous ideology off the hook. It’s no less outrageous than anyone trying to excuse the holocaust.

Daveo

No, mate. No one is saying that. People are saying a better system can be made than either. A more equitable system, but instead we laud and praise the elites and blame their stooge politicians and anyone that looks different and has a difference of opinion for all our problems. Hence, nothing changes. So, again it is your own reductionist view that is missing the point…badly.

Emi Rates

And here’s a quote from you saying just that.

“Inequality and genocide? Das kapital meine fruende (Many many many times over).”

Daveo

And what part of that is wrong? Exploitation of people, mineral, fossil fuel, agricultural resources in Africa, South America, Asia by colonial, capitalist governments and Western corporations has lead to genocides, wars, and environmental catastrophes… Many, many times over. Learn some history man. Or do you deny that? No one here has denied Stalin was an evil murderous dictator, but you seem to have a lot of trouble acknowledging the mass social and environmental destruction laid to waste by capitalist greed.

ArseSplat

Marxism is great but people are crap.

Karl and Friedrich

‘What we call communism is not a state of affairs to be achieved, an ideal according to which reality will have to adjust itself. Rather it is the real movement that abolishes the state of things’

Emi Rates

Said some rich guy whose wild ideas went on to inspire mass murder and suffering on a massive scale long after he’d finished living his life of privilege.

Daveo

Inequality and genocide? Das kapital meine fruende (Many many many times over).

Emi Rates