Arsenal will face Crystal Palace on Monday evening, with both sides managed by former Gunners captains.
Mikel Arteta is the man in charge in the red and white dug out, while Patrick Vieira took over at Selhurst Park this summer following the departure of Roy Hodgson.
It’s the Invincible skipper’s first return to North London in his burgeoning managerial career, and Arteta is sure he’ll be welcomed ‘home’ by fans on Monday.
“He is an Arsenal legend and I hope he gets the reception that he deserves for what he did for the football club,” he said.
“Not only as a player, but as well what he transmitted as a person. He was the captain during the most successful era over the last many years and it’s great to have him back.”
Palace under Vieira will certainly be different to Palace under Roy Hodgson, something Arteta is aware of.
“I don’t know how exactly they will set up,” he said. “They’ve done it in different ways using different players in most of the time similar formations. Let’s see how the game develops.”
Arteta was quizzed on the Invincibles, saying, “They had everything. They dominated every aspect of the game in the right way.
“They had incredible leadership to start with, with some of the names they had. They had the talent, the quality, and the self-confidence to believe they were the best … and they showed it.”
The boss was also asked if he’d like to have played against peak Vieira more often.
“No!”, he laughed. “Because he was very dominant, physically gifted, technically he had the right temper, he was brave, he could score goals, he could do a bit of everything.
“He was a remarkable player.”
I hope Roy Keane looks at Viera doing an amazing job at Crystal Palace and feels inferior once again.
The guy did a disastrous job at Ipswich and then basically gave up. Viera wins another bout against his old adversary.
Just watched some footage of Ian Wright, Lee Dixon and even Gary Neville taking the piss out of Keane a couple of years ago when England went out of the World Cup Semi Finals and Wrighty suggested that they (England) could get to the Euro Final just gone. Keane was dismissive but hilariously so, his more his voice got higher, flutey and indignant, the more Wrighty was pissing himself winding Keane up.
The guy always was a dickhead. It’s a toss up (literally) between him and Souness who the biggest wanker is.
https://youtu.be/Nf0ZizDUjCo
Roy Keane; Meltdown Maestro.
Enjoy…. 😉
Let’s not compare that scum against Vieira. Keene was just a thug, a rich man’s Cattermole. No wonder he managed Sunderland once he was finished and got sacked repeatedly. Vieira was a World Cup and Euro winner and played for some of the biggest clubs across Europe. Mentioning both in the same breath is a disgrace for our true legend. I loved those encounters back in the noughties but clearly, there was just one winner in my book even back then. And now, it’s clear as day who understood football better. Hope Vieira has a wonderful managerial career, but with… Read more »
Keane will always be mentioned with Patrick their careers entwined. They were eternal rivals on the pitch and we loved those games. We also loved the fact that our Patrick was vastly superior and was a midfielder who had it all.
I don’t like Keane either, but for all his brute approach, the guy was a good passer of the ball, and most of his teammates speak of how much his technical side was ignored throughout his career.
He underavhieved as a manager, but he was a true leader who lifted his teammates. Not up to Vieira’s level, but Keane was competent.
Incredible how quickly Vieira settled in and showed his class. One of our best signings ever.
He was named in the Premier League PFA Team of the Year for six consecutive years from 1999 to 2004. He helped Arsenal achieve a sustained period of success during his time at the club, where he lifted four FA Cups and three league titles, including one unbeaten.
Obviously I hope Palace loses on Monday but hope he succeeds as a (our, in time?) manager.
Oh god how I loved watching him play. He really had it all.
It’s nuts to think that even as good as he was (could’ve walked into any team in the world) he still wasn’t the best player in that team! Terrifying.
For me he was as good as anybody in that team. He was only the best midfielder in the world. Vieira behind the great attacking players, was one big piece of an amazing team, that worked as a unit.
Us Arsenal fans were really spoilt at that time, and probably didn’t realise what we had until it was gone
He really had to earn his stripes. He can only feel frustrated looking at Arteta at Arsenal, getting the gig with absolutely ZERO managerial experience, while he put in the hard work and did things the right way getting the experienced needed to understand the nuances of being a top flight manager. Great example of white privilege. You want to argue that? “BAME (Black, Asian and non-white minority ethnic) populations are currently under-represented among Premier League and EFL First Team and Academy Coaches. One in five professional players are BAME (19%), compared to just 3% of First Team coaches. In… Read more »
Great point about BAME populations being underrepresented at managerial level but do we know enough to say that the hiring of Arteta is a great example of white privilege?
How many non-white managers have a earned managerial gigs without any prior experience at the top level? Arteta is far from the first white manager to do so. I mentioned Vieira many times as the guy I wanted at Arsenal even before Arteta came, usual response: he’s done nothing and yet so many were fully on-board (at least initially) with the Arteta pick. These are the subtle biases that still exist in society and that non-white people have to live with every day – the need to prove themselves so much more than white colleagues.
Yeah, as a black person I’m aware of the subtle (and not so subtle) biases that exist in society when it comes to race. And I agree that that plays a massive role in the lack of BAME ppl in positions of power. But my question was do we know enough about the hiring of Arteta, specifically, to say that he was hired over Vieira due to racial bias. I mean, it could be the reason, certainly wouldn’t be the 1st time but seems like a massive assumption to me. Unless you have details of what happened behind the scenes… Read more »
I’m obvs really happy Vieira’s managing in the prem & the more diversity we see in all positions of power in the game, including directors & owners, the better.
I totally agree with what your saying. It may have played no role, it may have played a subtle role, it may have played a large role. I agree, we don’t know. Only the Kroenke’s and the rest of the hiring team know (and even then they may have subtle inherent biases they aren’t even fully aware of that may have influenced things even if they don’t think they did). But the point is we never really know. We didn’t know if it played a role with Lampard, we didn’t know if it played a role with Shearer, we didn’t… Read more »
Think we’re on the same page. I’ll definitely never argue that racism doesn’t exist in football, especially when it comes to the opportunities BAME ppl get in managerial & higher level positions. And I agree that part of the problem is we’re not given enough info to know if BAME applicants are being overlooked due to racial bias (conscious or unconscious). I’m just a bit cautious in calling out individuals without any evidence. In my experience that just leads to less than productive conversations (this definitely not being one of them). My son started supporting England over the Euros for… Read more »
Vieira’s record as a manager prior to the appointment of Arteta was mediocre, he had a galaxy of stars at his disposal in New York yet disappointed, he managed to lose 6-0 to their city rivals and his Nice team were the very definition of mediocrity in ligue 1- an uninspired team. At Nice he also failed to recognize the talents of Allan Sant Maximin who Premier League viewers are now seeing what a thrilling player he is. Vieira sold him for £16 million in the same summer Pepe joined us for £72 million, as a keen ligue 1 viewer… Read more »
So you’re basing his time at NYCFC on one result? “He led New York City to their first ever playoff appearance after finishing second in the Eastern Conference. Despite losing in the conference semi-finals to Toronto, 2016 was considered a successful first season for Vieira by nearly all pundits.[132][133][134] New York City improved its position in the combined MLS standings in each of his years with the club, improving from 17th in 2015 to 4th in Vieira’s first season in 2016 and then to 2nd in 2017.” He was excellent at NYCFC and highly lauded across the MLS, and living in… Read more »
You wouldn’t expect to go from the MLS to the Arsenal. He didn’t pull up many trees there despite some great players David Villa, Andrea Pirlo and Frank Lampard crashing out in the play offs.
By the way that was some first appointment in management.
As Christian said Nice were mid table too and as Christian also observed he has made a good start at Palace and who knows what could happen if he does well there.
You’re kind of missing the whole point. Vieira has learned to be a manager the proper way – he went through the process of starting in lower leagues, learning his trade, putting in the time. Arteta did not, he skipped all those steps and became manager at Arsenal as his first gig in the hot seat. Again, how many non-white managers have ever done that?
The argument at the time would have been that Arteta had learned alot as Pep’s assistant- that would have been some education. He also was credited by Pep and the media as being a very gifted coach and integral to their success with Raheem Sterling’s upsurge in form partially attributed to some extra coaching from our former number 8 on the training field.
Sometimes a harsh experience at the coalface can be a setback from which a young manager doesn’t recover e.g Henry at Monaco and perhaps Tony Adams at Wycombe and Portsmouth.
“Arteta had learned a lot as Pep’s assistant“. The point remains it is unprecedented that a non-white coach has ever been given the opportunity that Arteta, Lampard, keane, Southgate, etc. Until that changes, and until the proportion of non-white coaches and head coaches are more representative of the proportions of the players, then white privilege absolutely exists in football. The example of Arteta only adds weight to that because he adds to the larger data set of disproportionate representation and opportunity for white coaches. You can argue all day about the anecdotal example of Arteta’s employment at Arsenal all you… Read more »
The likes of the Kroenkes care most about money and in their sporting interests results, they chose the best candidate on merit… To get the results and grow their investment.
Which candidates should have got the jobs when lampard, shearer, arteta and Southgate got their jobs? They were all viable candidates at the time and there was a rationale behind their appointments.
The lack of African or black coaches coaching the respective African national teams is always a curious one.
The New York City job was a plum job by anyone’s reckoning. Work with Pirlo, Villa and Lampard under the Man City family while they keep an eye on you and potentially groom you as their future manager… Mmm yes please. It was hardly Sol Campbell’s or Tony Adams experience. He was very highly valued as a leader by Man City.
The MLS is the top division in the States and Ligue 1 is the top division in France, he didn’t go to Southend bro. They were top clubs owned by billionaires!
No I follow the game closely and watch a lot of matches- I follow a lot of leagues and particularly took an interest in Patrick’s career as a hero of mine. You seem to have cut and pasted Wikipedia bro! The Derby result was a salient result and did get many headlines at the time, the talent he had there was exceptional yet never yielded success. His Nice team struggled in mid table and he failed to harness the undoubted talents of Saint Maximin, whilst the style of play at Nice failed to set the pulses racing. Balance was achieved… Read more »
Wikipedia
Yeah and Wikipedia is well known to be often written by the celebs themselves and their agents constantly updating it.
I am black and from Nigeria but I chose Arteta over Viera but I think I am having some doubt, early days though
Early days for both I think.
As long as they don’t get any points off us, I’m hoping Vieira turns Palace into an entertaining, successful side. Don’t live too far from Palace, so I’ve always had a soft spot for them.
Thierry Henry springs to mind
Can’t you remember Henry’s disastrous time at Monaco. I’m sure he hopes we all forget about it. Theirry Henry got a massive opportunity at Monaco were in the European semis the year before and French Champions 2 years before his appointment. Less said about the results the better but he had only been a youth coach part time briefly at Arsenal (he preferred to stay on TV with Sky then go all in at Arsenal- for me a bad decision I think he would have had a crack at the job by now if he stayed) and as a 3rd… Read more »
Well, tbf then, credit is due to Palace. I agree with your point but I’m not sure the Arteta appointment fits, and thankfully this trend is starting to be bucked.
There are now two BAME managers in the PL which is shockingly low, but unbelievably there are only EIGHT across all Football Leagues.
8?! Fucking hell that’s depressing
Yep. Great read here:
https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-52979173
Thanks Daveo, I’ll have a read
The point isn’t that Arteta was appointed because he was white, he is just another example of the same trend. White managers get opportunities non-white managers don’t get, or if they do get them they only get them after proving themselves many times over. To put it bluntly if Arteta was not white he would not be manager of Arsenal – no non-white manager has ever been appointed in a top-flight competition with no previous experience in any of the top 4 major European leagues (EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga – at least not from my research) but there… Read more »
Seedorf AC Milan given the top job.
Good example. Thanks. Any in English football?
Ruud Gullit at Chelsea remember he transitioned from player to player manager then manager.
North of the border John Barnes got the Celtic job as his first managerial post. Massive club.
Seedorf age 37 1st managerial job at the great AC Milan doesn’t get much bigger than that. Is that not similar to your examples cited. A club legend, a leader, an intelligent and thoughtful man with a deep understanding of the club very similar circumstances to some of the others (though much more intelligent than Shearer obviously!).
If you are a big Vieira fan don’t worry his time will come even an average job with Palace will lead to bigger things.
Not disagreeing with what you’re saying at all, but I think the main point is that Seedorf is one person (heck of a player in his day I’ll add!), and the vast majority of all managers current and past have been white across the European leagues.
The problem being it shouldn’t be so hard to find more than one or two examples of a BAME manager in top flight leagues.
Let’s judge individuals on their own merits please.
It’s not wise to drive an agenda- Rio Ferdinand looked foolish when he suggested that Lesley King should quit Spurs as he was ‘overlooked in favour of Ryan Mason to succeed Mourinho, little did Ferdinand know that Ledley King had not got his coaching badges!
*Ledley
The whole point is the world has not judged non-white individuals on merit, otherwise there would be equal or similar representation in management and coaching as there is in playing ranks. And the data very clearly shows that is not the case. No one is saying all the white candidates that have got gigs haven’t been worthy candidates, but there are clearly many instances of worthy non-white candidates not getting gigs. The data shows that. Even the NBA which is at the heart of equity and diversity issues. 83% of players are non-white, 23% of head coaches were non-white in… Read more »
When are we gonna see a female manager of the women’s team?
Rio waded in without considering the circumstances.
John Barnes got the Celtic job at 36 years old in 99 before the examples you cited he had no experience yet we all know how that went. Chris Powell and Darren Moore were given chances at an early age. Terry Connor at Wolves took the reigns. There are black coaches out there bro. Paul ince did well at MK Dons and then managed Blackburn in the Premier League. Jean Tigana got the Lyon job as his first appointment, while Antoin Kombouare was PSG manager for 2 years. Vincent Kompany at Anderlecht. Guys like Vieira and kompany if they achieve… Read more »
19% of players across English Pro leagues are non-white.
3% of coaches across English Pro Leagues are non-white.
Anecdotes are great, but they can’t be used to explain trends. For that you need to look at the whole data set and the whole data set shows bias. Maybe that makes you feel a bit uncomfortable? Now imagine that was how you had to feel everyday because the deck is stacked against you.
You seem intent on dismissing the achievements of some of these black coaches as they don’t fit your narrative. They are not anecdotes but achievers and pioneers. We should be celebrating these pioneers in this Black History Month my brother.
They are role models to be celebrated. They have made it to where they are against many odds.
They are pioneers paving the way for others to follow.
May there be more and more coming up the ranks and given equal opportunities.
One day and hopefully soon, may they not be considered anecdotes but rather the norm.
I’m not dismissing their achievements at all. They are an inspiration, and they are exceptional. I have literally been praising the efforts and Vieira and have wanted him as manager of this team. My point about anecdotes is these are examples interesting stories and inpsiring individuals, but they don’t speak for the trends in what is happening. The data very clearly shows that non-white coaches are disproportionately underrepresented. Clearly you prefer to ignore the evidence of the issue and stick with the feel good stories. So I think we should leave it at that. But the very real issue doesn’t… Read more »
Fans enchanching your patchy knowledge shouldn’t be made to feel uncomfortable by you
You don’t know the struggles that anyone else has to put up with in their daily lives whatever their background whether they are similar to yours or not. It’s not cool to talk down to anyone.
Life’s a struggle.Let’s just enjoy the things that bring us together, come on Arsenal
Football is something that brings us together. It’s the beautiful game, which is exactly why everyone should have equal opportunity within the great game of football. That is specifically why I have spoken here on a very important issue. Until those opportunities are truly equal I’ll continue to discuss them.
I don’t understand why people would disagree with this post. Could someone enlighten me?
Uncomfortable truths.
I completely agree that there is shocking bias against BAME coaches, but I don’t think Arteta’s hiring is an example of white privilege. Arteta was hired because he was considered the next big thing, having worked with Pep, and precisely because he had had no managerial experience at a technically deficient club where he would be forced to play functional football. I – obviously (you’ve read my rants) – don’t think this was a particularly good reason to hire a manager, but if Viera had gotten the glowing recommendation Arteta had and he hadn’t managed elsewhere, he might have been… Read more »
I think focusing on MA’s hiring defeats the purpose of the broader lesson Daveo is trying to share. (Daveo, feel free to correct me.) The concept of white privilege isn’t just down to one or two big-name hirings, especially when we don’t know what went on in those hiring decisions. The issue is the system in which we all live, where the individuals that end up as options for a hiring committee to select end up there because of how society works. The issue is with every single hiring decision made at all levels, and every opportunity given to any… Read more »
I know, and like I said, I agree with the wider point. I do think there is a large degree of unconscious (?) bias here – “Allardici” was a very silly quote, but most owners do have an image of what a “sophisticated” manager looks like and sounds like – and black isn’t it. But Daveo specifically mentioned Arteta getting the job despite having “absolutely ZERO managerial experience,” my contention is that Arteta got the job PRECISELY because he’d had no managerial experience, so unlike Viera, whose managerial record was so-so (most managers’ records are) it was (has been) possible… Read more »
Sure, that makes sense to the extent that you explained it. I wonder if you would consider this also – if there was a hypothetical person with MA’s playing history and coaching history, similar strong connection with their former club, ie much the same credentials but of BAME background, would they have been selected to be thrown in the proverbial deep end at a club of Arsenal’s stature, an unproven candidate, as MA was? Would the club have taken that chance on a person of BAME background? What would the response have been by everyone, fans, pundits, the press? If… Read more »
The club has always taken chances as you phrase it with BAME talent. We have a rich heritage of BAME achievement from the the late David Rocastle, Michael Thomas, Paul Davis, era onwards. Indeed our 2 all time record goalscorers are Thierry Henry and Ian Wright, Wright, Wright! Our record signings £72 Million Pepe (quite a chance as you might say), Aubameyang and Lacazette are all BAME. Indeed a lot of our fanbase are from an ethnic background because of these wonderful players and Vieira and Kanu too. There would be a very positive reaction I would say but based… Read more »
I’ll be really excited the day when we choose a manager from a BAME background, whoever it is, who gets the job because they’re the right fit for us. Just like how the players are chosen currently and historically, like you said. It would be extremely awesome. Not just at Arsenal but across the EPL as a whole, recruiting players of diverse backgrounds based on merit has not yet translated into having diverse backgrounds in management/coaching. I would love for Arsenal to lead the way in making it better. It might be Vieira one day and it might be someone… Read more »
When do you reckon we will hear that famous old song of ours? Early on or when the result is settled with way, it could take on a rebellious tone if Palace are leading suggesting a popular approval of our former captain as a manager?
He will be well up for this game, a win could create a lasting impression.
Henry?
Vieira’s Nice lacked an identity. They played an insipid 4-4-2 and were dull to watch. Fashionable and sought after Coaches today are influenced by the German Gegenpressing school of Rangnick, Klopp et Al, or the Spanish model of passing football and tika taka style of Barcelona and Guardiola. These are the en vogue models and are the way the top teams play, there would have been vast dossiers at the Emirates on Vieira’s progress and the fact is he wasn’t ready.
My point is that you could say the same about Arteta’s Arsenal in the first half of last season.
If he had performed similarly at a mid-table club (a poorer one than us), he likely would have been fired before Christmas.
There is zero chance we would be interested in hiring him then.
Yes true he had the magic association of Pep and was untainted by failure or mediocrity.
I did imagine the philosophy would have been clearer in our displays and a more pleasing exciting style would have been implemented, you could have forgiven some results as long as we were firmly challenging for the top 4 positions.
Remember both Arteta and Emery were appointed as coaches. And Mikel had a first class coaching experience of 2 years under his mentor Guardiola.
Of course he’ll get a great reception.
Nothing would honour Viera’s return better than a MotM performance from Partey and his first Arsenal goal!
Who knows he scored on international duty, maybe he has adjusted his radar since Brighton.
I’ll take a 1-0 to the Arsenal!
Who remembers the old song?
🎤 Vieira…
He comes from Senegal…
He plays for arsenal!
Good lad!
Really glad Palace will be my first game as a newly minted season ticket holder so I can welcome Patrick back!
I’m worried because I rarely saw Vieira lose when Arsenal played at home. It’s a win win for me. Arsenal wins, I’m happy. Vieira wins, I’m happy for him. I think I’m just going to enjoy this one.
We need you in the Emirates every match day, your a good luck charm!
Anyone have a link to a clip of Viera’s debut? People talk about the transformative effect it had on the club and I’ve been keen to see it since.