Newcastle 0-1 Arsenal: player ratings

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Not much fun, but when it’s over it’s fun to have endured something not much fun and see the benefit of it by going top of the league. If you get what we mean.

Here’s how the players rated.

Wojciech Szczesny: 5/10 – When he booted the ball of Remy’s head I was all ‘Wooooooaaaah!’, but then when it went wide I was all ‘Pheeeeewwwwww!’ Lucky boy today.

Bacary Sagna: 8/10 – Bacary says NO. 9 clearances. The best backs-to-the-wall defender around.

Per Mertesacker: 8/10 – The BFG: Big f*cking Gandalf – You shall not pass. 16 out of 16 clearances. Boom.

Laurent Koscielny: 7/10 – A bit sloppy on the ball but made 13 clearances himself and got stuck in at the end.

Kieran Gibbs: 6/10 – Exposed a couple of times down the left, went off with what we can only assume is an injury.

Mathieu Flamini: 8/10 – Got booked for winning the ball, as was the way of Lee Probert, but a combative, energetic performance topped by a nostalgia filled 20 minutes at left back.

Jack Wilshere: 6/10 – Very good in the first half, but lost the ball a bit carelessly at times in the second. Attempted 11 take ons, was successful with only 4.

Santi Cazorla: 6/10 – Like Wilshere, better in the first half, but got kicked from pillar to post and never got a free kick all day (apart from the one we scored from!). Haha, Tiote.

Theo Walcott: 6/10 – A game, much like the one against Chelsea, which didn’t really suit him. Doesn’t like being made play the ball under pressure, there was little space behind for his pace to exploit, and thus struggled to make an impact.

Tomas Rosicky: 7/10 – Tireless running and pressing, even late on, and refused to take any nonsense from Newcastle’s perpetual foulers. Got himself a nice retribution yellow card too.

Olivier Giroud: 7/10 – His hold-up play was really very good today, got little or no service, but he scored the winner. Even if he should have had another he was the difference between 1 point and 3 today. The goal will do him good.

Subs

Mikel Arteta: 6/10 – Came on just at a time when we were being put under big pressure. Played his part.

Nicklas Bendtner: 6/10 – Made a couple of good blocks/headers as he came on for a tiring Giroud.

Carl Jenkinson: 6/10 – Personally, I thought he was right to hold onto the ball when Krul was racing back. We need to slow things down and try and keep the ball rather than just give it straight back to them.

Bonus rating

Lee Probert: please read the rules/10

Feel free to debate and discuss in the comments, but please read the comment policy first and don’t get angry with each other, or me, about imaginary points.

And watch out for something new and exciting coming to our player ratings in the next few days!

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Heroldgoon
Heroldgoon

This picture has been used in the last 3 Reports…..i know i can’t get enough of it either…

Hugo
Hugo

Rosicky was MOTM. 9/10. Tell me ONE 33 year old player who runs like a mad man closing people down in the 94th minute. Needs a new contract. Legend.

Vutti
Vutti

What picture?

Heroldgoon
Heroldgoon

Never mind. the bugger changed it.

Axel
Axel

It takes leg breaking tackles for our opponents to concede a yellow card…

Bishop
Bishop

I know this is off topic, but just can’t help: The mugmashers were top of the league on Christmas day and will not even be in the Champions League places on New Year’s day.

Arsepedant
Arsepedant

Not always. See Mikel vs. Arteta from the Chel$ki match.

Bosscielny
Bosscielny

Happy New Year Gööners!
Doesn’t it feel great to end the year ad league leaders again?

Smurps
Smurps

Only 8/10 for Mert? Don’t think he could have played much better, MOTM for me. I guess he could have scored a hattrick but that’s a bit unrealistic

Mustafa
Mustafa

I think Walcott should get a point higher for delivering a great precise ball for Giroud’s goal.

And a point higher for Rosicky too – tireless!

neutral
neutral

He also nearly scored with that looping effort from a sitting position, Giroud really should have put away the clearance but he rushed it.

Walcott, king of the comedy goals!

TH
TH

Yeah, bit strange that. Walcott drifts in and out of every game, whether they are good or bad ones, and he is all about end product. Ball in for the goal was brilliant and his run then chip from the floor should have lead to a second goal. Was our most effective attacking player yesterday in an admittedly poor attacking display all round.

Probably would have got a 5 last season though. Progress?

Stillmatic
Stillmatic

Remember it was also Theo’s free-kick that got us the 1-0 win against Newcastle in the last game of last season. His free-kicks won us 7 points last season yet some people say he should never take them…

GooneRon
GooneRon

Arsenal Team rating- 42 points.

JD
JD

I’m all for slowing down the game in the end, but Bendtner was on his own against Krul who was just running back to his goal.. stupid not to throw it quickly there. Great opportunity to kill the game.

Remember the invincibles

What was irritating was that Jenkinson wasn’t aware off the opportunity. He didn’t look to see where Krul was and who was around him. By the time he looked it was too late. Thought wilshere was poor today. The chance we gave them at the end of the first half was his fault. Still we got the three points and showed courage and determination to keep the clean sheet. Almost un-Arsene-ish. 1-0 to the Arsenal.

Oor Wullie
Oor Wullie

It was Wilshere who then cleared it off the line.

Manchester Gooner
Manchester Gooner

still deserved some criticism.

He’s making way too many mistakes in midfield for a team vying for the title. He has to improve his awareness and be quicker to pass the ball.

He should learn to control the game from deep positions this season and let Cazorla or someone else to be the play-makers.

His time has not come yet.

Double Canister
Double Canister

no he didnt. he didnt touch it.

Heroldgoon
Heroldgoon

Yes. yes he did.

Plus if he wasnt there on the backpost David santon would have easily poked the ball in….

Ermias
Ermias

The comment about Arseblog agreeing with Jenkinson’s decision so that we could slow down the game and hold onto the ball might have made sense if Ben-Arfa hadn’t waltzed into our box literally 15 seconds after he actually did throw it in.

There were no defenders anywhere near Bendtner so even after he has normal brutal first touch he still would have had a great chance to double our lead, instead Jenkinson waited for Newcastle to get back which allowed them to immediately get the ball and allow Ben Arfa to have a very similar chance to the one he scored against us at the Emirates two years ago the day Vermaelan had that ridiculous entire field sprint and finish to win it in extra time.

Mooo
Mooo

Sign the contract, Rosicky. Fucking please.

AnonymousGun
AnonymousGun

Sagna too

Heroldgoon
Heroldgoon

And Vermaelen? no? okay…

Eric
Eric

Bendtner too!! …er… sorry guys.. got a little carried away….

Xhani
Xhani

We are top of the league! Next 3 games are all home to Cardiff, Fulham and Palace. Should be able to get 9 out of 9 and keep ourselves on top while hopefully the rest of the big bpys drop some points.
PS: Are we considered title contenders yet? Has anyone seen Alan Hansen

Swedegunner
Swedegunner

we got Villa away after Cardiff

Manchester Gooner
Manchester Gooner

that means 12 points out 12 in the bag.

Xhani
Xhani

Ah yeah you’re right, my mistake! Manchester Gooner, you took the words right out of my mouth mate!

rawgooner
rawgooner

Who gives a shit what he thinks!

Arteta's hair
Arteta's hair

Kos definately deserved 8/10. Of course he had a hard time contributing the ball, with the weight of Remy in his pocket.

silentstan
silentstan

JW has been like Ramsey the season after injury, no pace, slow decisions, losing possession, poor passing, he should be benched. 4/10. Rosicky was tireless 8/10. Cazorla similar to JW, sloppy. 5/10. Arteta slow sloppy 5/10.

Fellonious
Fellonious

Winning ugly as a team – 13/10

Manchester Gooner
Manchester Gooner

I had a stomach problem after watching this game.

dandia
dandia

Me too

Flamini's shirty sleeves
Flamini's shirty sleeves

I did say that you don’t always have to swallow!

goonytunes
goonytunes

Well one thing is for certain- if Wenger insists on not playing Chu Young ‘Goals’ Park then we need a new striker for back up/rotation in January. I’d love to see us sign El Hadjj Diouf, would be a real statement of intent. Wouldn’t mind Theo Robinson either, could do a job, and failing these two then Chris Martin would be a very clever signing. Make it happen Wenger!

ANDR
ANDR

The first few times, it was funny. Now its plain irritating.

Pivethai
Pivethai

Well, it wasn’t until you mentioned the word.

goonytunes
goonytunes

Unbelievable that some of you so called ‘fans’ believe I’m joking. #JUSTICEFORCHU #Diouftoarsenal

Arsepedant
Arsepedant

Get lost. Please.

Heroldgoon
Heroldgoon

Does chu-young park pay you to stick up for him? i wouldn’t be surprised tbh

AP
AP

It was already irritating the first time.

#GOONYTUNES #*ARKOFF

Manchester Gooner
Manchester Gooner

have Never thought that Sam Alardyce is a gooner following the arses

goonytunes
goonytunes

Oh do stop being so PEDANTic you ARSE.

SKGooner
SKGooner

I thought Rosicky was our best player today. He was tireless, an outlet for attacking play and sliding tackles aplenty. 8 please?

Edu's Braces
Edu's Braces

Newcastle Fans: Suck My Dick You Jumped Up Wankers / 10

Beagleboy
Beagleboy

Let’s remain civil in here, shall we?

Edu's Braces
Edu's Braces

My language is hardly obscene. They started with the cheat stuff after about 5 minutes and watch when an arsenal player went for a throw/corner. So with all civility, you can…….

Nah.

goonies
goonies

After Koscienlys pockets was emptied the following were found.

Wristband, Remy, a quater

ZDR
ZDR

And a watch catalogue which he’s reading, apparently.

goonies
goonies

U get a Cookie.

Sajit
Sajit

Tiote – Wanker/10

GarmentDistrict
GarmentDistrict

Never seen someone make so many fouls and not get booked!

Genorious
Genorious

Nah, watch Ramires in just about any match. He can be guaranteed to make foul after foul, and gets away with about 90% of them.

Heroldgoon
Heroldgoon

Why would anyone want to watch Ramires

i don't comment here often
i don't comment here often

Ballack and Van Bommel come to mind. Great players, but nasty shitbags both of them. They always made the foul just before an attack could materialize. It’s fucking infuriating.

Manchester Gooner
Manchester Gooner

Steven Fletcher (Manure), Behrami (Napoli), Martinez (Bayern) to name but just three.

They all know that our passing play is hard to implement but easy to break down with small fouls.

We can’t cry for refs to be good every time. We should take care of it with our own ways.

My wish for the new year is that we add some physical strength to the team.

Charlie
Charlie

Tiote- Fouling, overly big-headed cunt/10
Bit harsh on SCZ I think, yes the mistake was very poor but he made a few decent saves and had a big punch near the end.

AmericanGooner
AmericanGooner

Is it me or has the refereeing in the BP been abysmal this year?

D
D

No you are correct. Unfortunately we have a culture in this country of accepting rubbish officiating as being “part of the game”.

Arsepedant
Arsepedant

We’ve certainly seen the worst of it these last three matches. We should have been playing against 10 men in Manchester, against 9 men at home to Chelski, and Tiote should conceivably have been booked twice today.

Dick Swiveller
Dick Swiveller

9? Mkel was probably a red but where was the other?

Rambunctious Rosicky
Rambunctious Rosicky

Ozil copped a boot to the face too.

OG Mike
OG Mike

If memory serves me right it was Ramires on Arteta in the 2nd half. Not as bad as Mikel’s “challenge” on Arteta but definitely worth a booking at the very least.

Breezy
Breezy

The refereeing has been shit for a few years now, in fact ever since Riley took over as head, but I guess that’s no surprise given that Riley didn’t know his arse from his elbow when he was actively refereeing.

Ebouefan
Ebouefan

Would give Walcott 7/10 for his FK. Made the difference.

Remember the invincibles

Never thought this day would come. People are praising Walcott for his free kick. Certainly grown up. Good player nowadays.

duno
duno

I vehemently disagree with the 5 for Sczesney. How could you have forgotten that awesome save so soon? Plus he kept a clean sheet anyways. 7 for me. 7 for Theo. Great win!Holding on was stern stuff. Phew!

Remember the invincibles

It’s a matter time before he gives up a goal like this. He’s done it today for the fourth time this season. On that basis the rating is spot on. He was lucky. Bad mistakes can happen but when he keeps making it again and again, it feels like he’s unlearning the lessons he learnt when he got dropped. The save was tremendous. But it would have been pointless if that mistake had resulted in a goal.

Dick Swiveller
Dick Swiveller

Doesn’t help that it’s the second time he’s made one in two games, we didn’t concede this time but it’s a little worrying, sure he’ll be fine though.

T-H
T-H

The game would have been easy less nervy, had Wilshere been taken off. Tries too much to win it by himself – nothing wrong with wanting to win, but do it simple. Like Ramsey. Don’t complicate matters!

Heroldgoon
Heroldgoon

Err wilshere was brilliante today. Led dribbles led tackles. i remember he got caught only once today otherwise worth a shout for MOTM if anything

sol (not campbell) eid
sol (not campbell) eid

It’s not that our attackers played poorly, it’s that their defence was just so stubborn, but ours was better 😉

What a great start to the year 2014 will be, Coyg!

John
John

Here’s a controversial question that is bound to get me lots of thumbs downs, but am I the only person who thinks Rosicky is completely useless? Ultra casual in posession and with no end product?

sol (not campbell) eid
sol (not campbell) eid

Not sure if you were watching the same game but for me he was motm for arsenal

John
John

But what did he do? It not what I saw

ZDR
ZDR

He did what Ramsey often does, which is drive the team forward, carry the ball up the pitch, press high up, disrupt their play, and threaten to punish any mistakes. He was our best midfielder on the day and a possible MOTM.

John
John

Ramsey’s got 13 goals this season. Last time I checked football is about scoring more than the opposition, can people please tell me the names of the attacking midfielders for Barcelona, Real Madrid, and Bayern Munich who job it is to run around looking busy without any end product?

Arsepedant
Arsepedant

Good grief, if you think the only way someone can have a good match is by scoring goals you must rate Szczesny zero out of ten. Rosicky was immense today.

Parisian Weetabix
Parisian Weetabix

@John: Search “Rosicky pre-assists for Arsenal” on YouTube. It’s a pretty comprehensive video, and it sort of tells you what he does.

He’s not as technically gifted as Santi, but he’s not far off. He’s not as quick as Theo, but he’s not far off. He hasn’t got the vision of Ozil, but he’s not far off. He hasn’t got the passion of Flamini, but he’s not far off. He can’t pass as well as Arteta, but he’s not far off.

It is hard to explain; he’s one of those players whose presence for Arsenal on a football pitch makes me feel like we are far more likely to win. He’s not a specialist, and that means he can’t decide games like the players I mentioned can. But he knits things together. He won’t play the assist or score the goal, but he’ll be part of the move. And if it breaks down, he’ll charge after it and try to win it down because he understands that side of the game. He has a better slide tackle than most defenders, and he gets stuck in. The fans and his team-mates love him, and that’s great for the team.

And above it all, he really, seriously, clearly wants to win every goddamn football match the might Arsenal play. I didn’t see the game today, but it’s the kind of environment Rosicky thrives in. If the beauty isn’t working, Rosicky doesn’t go missing like Santi or Ozil might. He’s a proper footballer, and the fans love him for it.

John
John

And still nobody can tell me the equivalent player for Barcelona or Bayern Munich, very telling.

Can somebody tell me the statistic for win rates for him in and out of the team, because to my eyes we’re handicapped when he plays mainly because he’s a passenger. Running around a lot isn’t a skill, it should be a minimum requirement for a professional footballer!

Dick Swiveller
Dick Swiveller

I can’t say this without sounding like a dick but if you can’t see it, you don’t understand football so well.

Space needs to be created in order to be exploited, to score goals.

Rosicky is very good at creating space.

This helps us win games.

I’m sorry for being a dick but that’s it as simple as I can make it.

Cyril Washbrook
Cyril Washbrook

“And still nobody can tell me the equivalent player for Barcelona or Bayern Munich, very telling.”

Sure, because if you don’t play exactly like Barcelona and Bayern München, you’re rubbish.

But since you seem to be fixating on “end product” as the marker of a midfielder’s value, let’s go with that dimension of your argument. Kroos has one goal and six assists from 29 games. I suppose he just “runs around looking busy without any end product”. Schweinsteiger has two goals and two assists from 17 games. I suppose he just “runs around looking busy without any end product”. Iniesta has one goal and four assists from 24 games. I suppose he just “runs around looking busy without any end product”.

Yeah, useless players the lot of them.

John
John

Rosicky doesn’t create space for us to score goals any more than szczesny does, he one of the primary reasons we haven’t won anything for the last 8 years because he’s useless.

You can’t compare him to Inesta or Schweinsteiger because, 1, he plays further up the pitch and 2, they’re winners!!

As for Kroos 1 goal and 6 assists is a 600% increase of output to Rosicky so thank you for proving my point

Angus
Angus

Maybe we should get a director of football to buy and sack players, and you could tell him all about ‘output’ John, and then we could truly match the recent great output collectives like QPR and the spuds.

John
John

What’s a director of football got to do with anything? My memory is clearly better than everyone else’s here, as I remember Rosicky being bought as a replacement for Robert Pires, of which by any measure he’s been a spectacular failure. Let’s get one thing straight, I’m not questioning his integrity, character and even his technical ability, just to my eyes doesn’t bring anything team either tangibly, intangible or statistically.

To my mind Rosicky is the embodiment of the last 8 years of no success, he’s a frilly player with no substance.

John
John

As expected I’m getting a lot of thumbs down but no explanation as to what he brings to the team. He’s an attacking player who’s only attacking contribution this season is 1 assist, to put that into perspective, Jenkinson has 2 with less game time!

Swedegunner
Swedegunner

intangibles. not everything a player is doing well has a stat you know..

John
John

Like?

John
John

He doesn’t pass well, or tackle well, or take up good positions. Nor does eh aid the defence or attack, so please enlighten me. He has a good line of pushing opponents, I’ll give him that. And he’s only 24 in football years of course!

Swedegunner
Swedegunner

Energy

John
John

He’s the poor mans Dirk Kuyt or Park without the goals

ANDR
ANDR

Well, you cant measure his contribution in goals and assists only. He brings drive, energy and he is probably the best in the squad at pressing high up the pitch which is very important for our our style of play. Also, he can switch the tempo of the game very quickly(from defence to attack). Personally, his passes are always inventive(although occasionally wayward) and his runs always dangerous.

John
John

I don’t see him doing any of that, I feel he slows the game down and over complicates the attack and I regularly watch him strolling whilst the opposition run past him to attack.

ZDR
ZDR

Well obviously you’re entitled to your opinion based on what you observe. Others have explained what he brings to the team. I agree he’s not always the most productive player, however today he clearly outshone Jack and Santi through, as others said, his energy. He’s a useful option to have.

TJBgooner
TJBgooner

John, you’re just not seeing the bigger picture, if there were points for second assists, he would be right up there e.g.the two Giroud misses in the Chelsea game were created by Rozza setting free Gibbs and Rambo respectively. He is consistently our brightest midfielder and quickens forward momentum, not slowing it. OK, some of his passes go astray but that’s because they are more adventurous than the backwards and sideways stuff that others produce. Give TR7 a new contract before the likes of Everton or Fulham sign him up.

John
John

We need better than him to challenge consistently.

Kangoroo
Kangoroo

If you look at his stats – not just goals and assists – I reckon you’ll be surprised at his tackling and forward passing ones. Plus if you look at his games he’s always the one running to close down opponents, which disturbs their passing. He is always a player looking to pass the ball forward which is a good thing. Rosicky isn’t a goal/assist type player (before coming he did’t have great stats on these) but more influencial in the final third… the one you pass the ball to when you get the ball deep in midfield… more like a number 8 type player – but a bit more attacking.

John
John

He occupies an attacking position, therefore he must contribute to the attack. It isn’t a coincidence we haven’t won anything whilst player like him, Hleb and gervinho haven’t produced what players in their positions are supposed to, I.e. Goals and assists. Pires, Ljungberg, Wiltord, Merson even Parlour (a hard worker) had end product!,

IceBerg10
IceBerg10

Rosicky is a continuity player, who plays at high tempo…..the problem with him is that he can only play at one place…fast. When the game needs to be slowed down, he tends to misplace quite a few passes coz his body is always in motion…..very good against modest opposition, and still a very valuable player, but against top teams and defences…not the man…long-term, the Ox will take his place…plus, zero goal threat from him….still our second-best continuity player after Rambo

John
John

Not good enough for a top team

TJBgooner
TJBgooner

Cesc used to say that Rozza would walk into any team when fully fit (accepting that was always the big question). So if that’s good enough from Cesc, it should be good enough for us.

Dr Öö
Dr Öö

Yes you are the only person who thinks that

John
John

Thankfully I also think Wenger sees it, as with a fit squad Rosicky doesn’t get anywhere near the pitch

TOGooner
TOGooner

Oh my god,I know what you are doing. You are creating argument for the sole purpose of realization. The realization of why and how much we love Rosicky. Any who, to the Bayern equivalent, no one. But when they faced the enigma which is Rosicky, this happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6oksu9lC10

In Barca, I would say the closest player in Iniesta. Iniesta is better than Rosicky. He starts for Barca (has 17 appearances starting in the CM-Attacking role). One, if not the best in his position in the world. WhoScored rating of 7.59 for the games he started this seaason, in which has a grand total of 1 goal and 3 assists in 17 starts and 5 sub appearences. If he doesn’t score much, doesn’t assist often, and doesn’t defend, what is his point?

Rosicky though, is a utility player. Played in four midfield and defensive positions. He is Flamini’s utility counterpart in the attacking midfield. Flamini’s stats compared to arteta place him as a much inferior player. But we know how good he is and what he brings. These are high energy hustle players that are good enough with the ball to play in Arsenal’s midfield and are fantastic at pressing. Which is why they are Champion’s League staple.

And you must remember, we would not have been fourth last season without Rosicky’s performances in the last 10 or so games.

Geezer
Geezer

Wenger starts Rosicky in every big game, this shows how highly he is rated. He is 33, and can not start 2 games in 3 days given how much work he puts in when he plays. I don’t rate your observation skills much, because you feel he does not pass well, or tackle well. And you rely on assists and goals to judge him. He does not play that high up either, to score goals or assist them. See his cross for Walcott (who then set Ozil up for the goal against Everton): if that is not quality, then we can agree to disagree.

Also, you ask for one player in Barca and Bayern who are like Rosicky, i.e. in your opinion, just run around. Answer is that all of their players are like Rosicky. All of them press high, which is why they win the ball high up the field, and score more goals. At Arsenal, it is only Rosicky. If anything, you should be blaming the other players for not pressing as much as him. Rozza pressing alone will not lead to much “end-product”, as a high pressing game needs more participants.

Have a good day.

John
John

Rosicky starting every big game is in my opinion one of the major reasons we do so badly in big games, because he’s a passenger.

Rosicky’s pressing is another thing, pressing only works if it’s done in conjunction with your teammates otherwise you just leave a gap where you should be standing.

Maybe his non scoring, non passing talent is so otherworldly I can’t see it, if that’s the case he’s operating on a much higher level to his teammates and a luxury we can’t afford!

goonytunes
goonytunes

And I thought I was the most unpopular guy on here for my views about Chu Young ‘Goals’ Park. John, are you willing to go into coalition? I will support your motion of Rosicky being shite if you back my #JUSTICEFORCHU campaign.

John
John

He couldn’t offer any less than Rosicky I guess!

sam
sam

You asked for this:

Rosicky has started 7 PL games and 5 CL games this season and we got 28 points out of a possible 36 (77.7%)

In all the other games (12PL and 1CL), we have got 26 points out of a possible 39 (66.0%)

And if that’s not good enough for you. The “all other games” category includes Rosicky’s 4 PL substitute appearances: Norwich, Southampton, West Brom and Everton. Against West Brom, we were 1-0 down when Rosicky came on. His layoff led to Wilshere’s equaliser (the one only assist you mentioned). Against Everton, we were tied 0-0 when Rosicky came on. It was Rosicky’s cross for Walcott which he subsequently headed towards Ozil for the tap in (the kind of pre-assists everyone has been trying to convince you of).
Rosicky also had a similar pre-assist for our 4th goal at Norwich, crossing for Ramsey who laid it off for Ozil.

And this is only for this season. I’m sure the stats for the last 2 seasons are equal or if not better.

Rachel
Rachel

John, your footballing ‘logic’ is similar to Vincent Tan’s who was annoyed that Cardiff’s goalkeeper hadn’t contributed any goals this season.

John
John

I’d like to think my logic is football is about scoring more than the opposition. Whilst I believe every player on the pitch must contribute to defence those who occupy an attacking position must and I mean must score and create goals if you want to be successful.

Arsenal have been successful with high output players like, Overmars, Pires, Ljungberg and been unsuccessful when replacing them with players with a low output like Rosicky, Hleb and Gervinho.

Baz
Baz

John while everybody is entitled to their views, your crap opinion on Rosicky is making me want to punch babies. Please stop.

sam
sam

First, it’s one thing to say that Rosicky is “completely useless”, does not offer much and “does not aid defence or attack”.
But it’s completely another thing to say that his output (in terms of your definition) is less than Pires, Overmars or Ljungberg.

Everyone here is disputing your first claim, and the one you set out to begin with. If your argument was the second, it would be less (but still) contestable.

Wolf
Wolf

I think the stats you asked for disprove your point. Another thing to mention is how Rosicky’s fellow players rate him so highly. Özil actually said recently in an interview with a German paper that he was really looking forward to being in a team with Rosicky and his ‘direct passing’. Case in point: the quick pass out to Özil in the run up to Ramsey’s goal against Dortmund. Talking of Dortmund, Marco Reus (another high-energy AM) said that he completely modelled himself on Rosicky, even down to the sweat bands!

If you watch him closely, he almost ALWAYS passes forward, after receiving the ball deep or higher up the pitch. It’s a bit risky at times, but that’s what the modern, high-pressing game is about.

Interesting that you bring up Rosicky, Hleb and Gervinho as ‘replacements’. The one thing you could accuse Wenger of is to buy essentially central attacking midfielders and stick them on the wings. Their Arsenal careers nosedived in the cases of Hleb, Gervinho and also Arshavin.

John
John

I know this is annoying people but there is no argument that Rosicky’s body of work at Arsenal has been nothing but a spectacular failure. In his eight years at the club he hasn’t scored enough, assisted enough, been fit enough or helped Arsenal win a single trophy. These are facts that are beyond argument!

You can use individual instances of good play in x,y or z game, but the pattern over a career tells the big picture and that is inconclusive proof that he hasn’t been anywhere near good enough.

Wolf
Wolf

John, as @sam has pointed out, you are changing your argument. Nobody would really disagree that his Arsenal career has been disappointing. I put that down to many many injuries and being played out of position too much.

But saying that he is not a good player, based on historical data, is extremely dubious. You also can’t judge his RECENT performances (ie last season and this season) by his overall Arsenal career. That just doesn’t make sense. It also doesn’t make sense to rate an individual player on how many trophies their club has won. If you do that Rosicky is in rather illustrious company in world football!

You started by saying that he doesn’t contribute and that Arsenal’s performances are worse when he is playing. Both have been disproven (by stats and by pointing out individual games). If your point is now that he was a ‘bad piece of business’ based on hindsight, well, maybe. I prefer to say “that’s a real shame” rather than “he is crap” though.

John
John

Wolf here’s Rosicky’s stats since the start of the 2009/2010 season as per whoscored.com

Played 77starts (45 sub) total 122 apps
Total goals: 8
Total assists: 12
Yellow cards: 21

More yellow cards than goals scored or assisted. My argument hasn’t changed, he hasn’t scored enough or assisted enough and both statistically and to my eye doesn’t bring anything to the team.

Wolf
Wolf

If anything, those stats show you how little he has played over the last 4.5 seasons. His full Arsenal stats are:

Total played: 199
Total goals: 22
Total assists: 24

13 goals and 6 assists actually came in 2006-2008. He got badly injured in 2008 and didn’t play at all in 2008/09. Afterwards the stats are certainly worse.

Interestingly, according to whoscored he also racked up 5 MOTM ratings in 122 games – Ramsey only got 8 in 136 appearances, 4 of which came this season.

Do you see my point? Not everything is fully documented by goals/assists stats. And what the fact that he has more yellow cards than goals or assists has to do with anything I’m really not sure. Schweinsteiger is roughly the same – and he only switched to a DM position in the last couple of years.

Here is what you originally posted: “Rosicky is completely useless. Ultra casual in posession and with no end product.” As to the former, his passing success rate over the last two seasons is almost exactly the same as Ramsey’s (84.1 vs 84.5). Is he useless too? Yes, Rosicky should probably score more goals. But he never has, not even at Dortmund (22 in 145).

John
John

Thank you Wolf for proving my point. Ramsey is the perfect player to compare him to.

Ramsey has scored aprox. 1 in 4.5 games compared to Rosicky’s 1 in 10 and has 16 assists to Rosicky’s 12 in roughly the same period. Ramsey has also been for most of that time a teenager learning the game whilst Rosicky has been in what most would expect to be his prime years. Ramsey’s also had a terrible broken leg which kept him out for a year and has taken him the best part of 2 to get over and still he offers twice as much as Rosicky!

Tomas Rosicky is by your own stats a roughly 1 in 10 scorer and assister, they only prove that my eyes aren’t deceiving me.

John
John

FYI Santi Cazorla got 10 MOTM awards by whoscored.com last season alone!

Wolf
Wolf

Oh dear, I got sucked into a stats argument. My point is actually that they DON’T always prove a player’s worth. A passing stat for example does not tell you

– WHERE that pass was made
– which DIRECTION it was made in
– what the INTENT was, ie attacking through ball, possession-keeping sideways pass, long/short pass etc etc
– in what context of the game it was made (pumping high balls into the box in the last 3 minutes, protecting a lead by passing back to defenders etc)

But ok, I started it and you correctly pointed out flaws in that particular comparison. You are completely right, Ramsey is a lot younger and they both suffered injuries. Point taken, although I’d add that Ramsey’s stats of course improved HUGELY this season. If you took that away, well, we know how much he got criticised last year.

I still disagree completely that goals/assists are what a midfielder has to be measured by. In fact, looking at Giroud’s contribution this season, I’m not sure even strikers have to be measured by that.

By the way – if you take stats out of context, you can prove whatever you like. Like you saying Cazorla got 10 MOTMs. Yes he did. In 38 games, compared to Rosicky’s 3 MOTMs in 13. Be fair, that’s not a significant difference is it?

John
John

Sorry my friend but assist stats do prove where, direction and intent of a pass, because they result in a goal!

People’s eyes clearly deceive themselves. Because to view Rosicky as a good player for being busy, and technically accomplished is the same rational as saying Mertasackers can’t defend because he’s slow! He’s fluff, decoration, what he does can look pretty but is completely pointless.

Rosicky directly contributes to Arsenal scoring at best once every 4.5 games the rest of the times he offers nothing but appearing to be good.

TJBgooner
TJBgooner

John, you’ve completely lost this argument, just accept it, please as it’s become very tiring now! Your’re still only considering scoring and assist stats but TR7 is often involved in breaking up opponents play, tackling and instigating attacking moves. I say again, if there were stats for second assists, he would be right up there. What he does need now (hopefully!) his injury demons are behind him is a consistent run in the team so he can get even better as on current form he is ahead of both Santi and Jack and even Rambo now that he’s gone off the boil and got injured too. You’re also comparing passing stats but not allowing for the fact that Rozza’s are at least on a par with the other players and he’s actually more likely to give the ball away because his passes are generally more attacking and adventurous. He also does great work and running off the ball that you’re obviously not seeing. Football is a TEAM GAME and this effort is all part of it. If you can’t recognise that, then you know absolutely nothing about football.

John
John

I certainly haven’t lost the argument, Rosicky’s passes aren’t more adventurous or attacking otherwise they’d lead to goals, it’s your eyes that are deceiving you because numbers do not lie!! My eyes tell me he’s crap and the statistics prove it.

Let me give you some numbers to prove just how bad he is. I’m going to give you the frequency of goals either created or scored by the players at the club who play in a similar position since 2009 to today:

Arteta 1 in 3.97
Ramsey 1 in 3.89
Cazorla 1 in 2.62
Walcott 1 in 2.01
Podolski 1 in 1.74
Ozil. 1 in 1.56
Rosicky 1 in 6.10

The numbers are are irrefutable prove that he isn’t fit for purpose as an attacking player. In fact he’s a hindrance because we are FAR less likely to score when he’s on the pitch, numbers do not lie! I personally couldn’t care less how much he runs or breaks up play, the best form of defence for a player who occupies a position in the attacking 3rd of the pitch is to attack and score, he doesn’t provide this at anywhere near the required standard.

Wolf
Wolf

John, for goodness sake – FOOTBALL IS NOT JUST ABOUT SCORING. All your statistical evidence falls apart when you imagine that Rosicky could score 5 times in the next game – only for Arsenal to lose 8-5. That would hugely improve his scoring stats for you but would have no value for the club whatsoever.

Do you know that Ryo Miaichi is the only player that has a 100% pass completion rate for Arsenal this season? Does that have an iota of meaning for the value he brings to the team at this point?

And scoring/assisting is the best defensive contribution for a player in the attacking 3rd of the pitch?? Sorry, but that is ludicrous. All modern teams – nonsense, all teams since Ajax in the late sixties – play some sort of proactive pressing game when they’re not in possession of the ball. Anything else would be madness.

John
John

Wow football isn’t about scoring?! That’s new to me, because I thought it was only about scoring! Let me tell you the point of football, it’s to score more than the opposition, and that’s the only point. My stats wouldn’t fall apart if Rosicky scored 5 the next game because his stats would still be crap! Statistic do not tell what will happen in any single match but will tell exactly how any single player will perform over a period of time. I’ll repeat, you can give single instances of good play or extraordinary stats for one match for any player, you put a case forward for any player to be good with that argument. However statistics will prove beyond doubt how good any given player is over the course of a career.

You shouldn’t miss the wood for the trees, defending from the front should not be at the expense of the primary function of attacking, it’s a given if you want to be successful. For all of Rosicky’s defending from the front he has helped the club win nothing, 0 trophies, principally because players like him haven’t done enough to beat the opposition and to beat the opposition you must score more than them!

TJBgooner
TJBgooner

John, are you a ‘bean counter’ at the MOD or something? 🙂

Cannoner
Cannoner

Just can’t agree on your Jenkinson comment. That was poor awareness on his part. You can see Bendtner and Santi’s frustration at the loss opportunity. That was only a few seconds wasted compared to what could have been a less tension filled possible 2-0 win near the end

Mimir
Mimir

An extra +1 for Rosizky perhaps. He was like a terrier on a hunting scent today. And maybe a -.5 for Flamini. He was combative yes, but a bit wayward.

waitressinthesky
waitressinthesky

I love Flamini, but I do think our distribution suffers a bit when Arteta’s not out there. Glad we have two great options, so our players can rest.

SkinnyRicky
SkinnyRicky

A performance of bravery and resilience. BFG one of the players of the season.
Perhaps a 6 fairer for Woijcech on basis of crucial first half save?

seangooner
seangooner

I’m honestly curious about the number of forwards the Mertecielny partnership has in their back pockets. I saw a stat that they haven’t lost a game together since January 2012 where they’ve played a full 90 minutes together. Can anyone confirm this?

ZDR
ZDR

If I remember, a back four of Sagna – Mert – Kos – Gibbs have NEVER lost a game which they have ended as a unit, which is pretty remarkable.

Double Canister
Double Canister

It’s the reason Flamini cuts his sleeves off, to make enough material for the extra pockets.

Johnny Jensen's Bender
Johnny Jensen's Bender

Quality!

AP
AP

Not sure but I can confirm that Arsenal has never dropped a point with a team with me in it.

billp79
billp79

any word on Nacho Monreal….like where is he?

sol (not campbell) eid
sol (not campbell) eid

Just ill along with verm, hopefully they’ll be back against Cardiff, especially since Gibbs might be injured

seangooner
seangooner

Sorry, that was a PL game*

ArseRob
ArseRob

Tremendous team resolve, the kind of win that champions gut-out and a huge 3 points to be sure. To me, line-up still looks unbalanced though and have to say the ratings for Jack and Theo seem generous. Too many give-aways for the former, who also seems easily flustered, and, previous games dynamic header notwithstanding, Theo just does not impose himself enough. Would like to see a bit more of Gnabry and hope Poldi gets start against Cardiff. And Ivan/Arsene, please lock-down Bac for at least 2 more years, what a rock he is!

MacedonianGooner
MacedonianGooner

I simply LOVE the refs with all my heart….as much as they love us to be precise. That being said, I think that Tiote should stop letting his horrible footballing career get on the way of his god given talent of raping goats..

East Gooner
East Gooner

Wenger – Pragmatism over Flair/10
Well done by Arsene to put Jenkinson on and play 5-4-1. We had to soak up some pressure but had he not done it Neavou Chateau (Newcastle in it’s home language French) might have pinched a goal in front of their home fans.
Anyway good stuff and oh yeah – Half the Season over and we lead the league. COYG!!!

REMINGTON
REMINGTON

Chateau Neuf would be a better translation

AP
AP

Come on, we had our fair share of French players in the first half of AW’s tenure too. What’s with the scorn?

malasa
malasa

I don’t agree with Thomas 7/10 for me He was our best Player. Great energy as usual, fantastic pressure of the ball and just sheer tireless-ness and passion, I would give him a 9/10!

Rambö
Rambö

Szczesny’s shot to Remy’s face: Mike Tyson/10.
Szczesny’s luck this match: 11/10

I mostly agree with the ratings, except that I thought Rosicky was an 8 today. That guy is incredible!

mike
mike

Mr Blogs, i agree with the comments you make on jenkinson, but i feel 6/10 is a tad harsh for Walcott, agree with you that it isn’t the type of game suited for him, however that free kick was class, 7/10 for me.

kaius
kaius

Committed team performance that made a mockery of Pardew’s “we got the best recent record, even better than Arsenal and we’ll have to reevaluate our season if we beat them” schtick.

Walcott as “enigmatic” as ever. Prior to the assist his activity sequence sequence was Misplaced Pass, Lost Possession, Cross straight into Touch. Then after that sublimely-lofted free-kick, he went Misplaced Pass, Lost Possession, Subbed Off. As usual he’s anywhere between a 3/10 and a 7/10, but it’s rare that his interventions in games aren’t decisive.

Great to have our enigma back! Top of the League!

Utkarsh
Utkarsh

I think Santi was very casual today.. Gave away possession too many times.. His worst game in Arsenal shirt.

Double Canister
Double Canister

No, you were referring to Jack.

Limp Bar
Limp Bar

No. of clearances? Blogger, you’re beginning to sound like Orbinho!

Ciscoo
Ciscoo

Theo should never be anywhere near a set pie…oh.

Big props to the defence and Flamster. In games like this where we had to invite a lot of pressure, and lets face it away to St James’ Park is a pretty hard fixture, our defence needed to be faultless and it almost was. Bar Gibbs who struggled (but wasn’t really protected at all)

skins
skins

Rosicky easily the man of the match

nycgunner
nycgunner

Giroud was our super hero today. He’s half man half peacock. He is The ManCock

TOGooner
TOGooner

Maybe we can sign Chicharito and they can form the heroic duo of Man Cock and Pea Boy.

Moral high ground
Moral high ground

Imagine if Giroud had not scored? I think he would have got criticised not because he missed any sitters but because his build up play was NOT up to scratch today. And it is usually excellent. Showed horrible lack of awareness at times and quite frankly rolled around like a bit of a girl. So glad he scored though. Will do his confidence so much good…

bkgooner
bkgooner

Sczesney derserved better, that save to close the first half was brilliant and kept us in it.

dgaj
dgaj

TOTL!

And here’s to kicking the Scum right in their cocks Saturday!

dgaj
dgaj

Wait? We play Cardiff on Wednesday too?

irfan
irfan

rosicky 10/10

berlingoon
berlingoon

Next 5 league games: Cardiff (H), Villa (A), Fulham (H), Southampton (A), Palace (H)
Meanwhile: Pool – Everton, United – Spurs, Chelsea – United, ManCity – Chelsea, Spurs – ManCity
If we get at least 13 points from this 5 games, I’m more than confident that we can go the whole way! Believe Gooners, believe!!!!

twema
twema

Wilshere was a disaster today! He slows down our play and gives the ball away in dangerous areas which leads to an unnecessary counter attack that puts our defence under pressure

Arsene Wengers Jacket
Arsene Wengers Jacket

Am I the only person who gets frustrated at our crossing? Sometimes I feel our crossing is overly ambitious and just results in loss of possession most of the time. That killer ball behind defense and in front of the opponents keeper across the 6-yard box is one I want to see more of. Near impossible to defend, almost impossible to miss when you get a touch, any touch. I think Giroud would bag tons this way and silence any doubters.

the fonz
the fonz

Easier said than done mate

Alleycat bangkokney
Alleycat bangkokney

Players ratings are inconsequential in games like these. It’s not about the beautiful game, simply about the three points. Apart from the points, the positives are JW, Kos, Theo and Poldi have all come back after injury/suspension and as such, rested. And Mezut was given leave for this game. All this without our player of the season AR who was due a rest even if sadly it is through injury. Now all we need is a quality striker in the January window!